# David Broder eviscerates Harry Reid. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729 "2007-04-26T13:39:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/21 "2007-04-26T16:50:48Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I agree completely. I believe Harry Reid is trying to use the war to maximize political troubles for the administration, which is despicable. Should we lose, it won’t just be a loss for the Bush White House. [/QUOTE] Considering what the Bush Administration has done with almost unlimited political power, maximizing political problems for them by any means is not despicable, but a moral imperative. They’ve already demonstrated that they can’t be trusted with power. Since we don’t know exactly what winning in Iraq means, and we certainly haven’t seen any believable way to get there, perhaps a loss there, while a loss for the White House, might be a gain for the country. Withdrawn troops can be restored as a reserve for real threats to us. We might have more resources for the true WoT in Afghanistan. Continuing to invest in a lost cause just because you don’t want to admit it’s lost is a classic mistake. In any case, Reid is not making us lose. No one is sitting in Baghdad, ready to give up, but reenergized by CNN. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/22 "2007-04-26T16:55:31Z")
The problem is not that Reid was being political, it’s that he stopped being political for an entire sentence; a rare thing these days. The reason what he said is stupid is that it is vulnerable to political demagoguery. Factually, it seems true. If we define “winning” as establishing a pro-western, democratic, and stable secular government that is capable of maintaining itself without a large number of American forces, then “we” have lost. Of course it is not “we” it’s “W” that lost. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/23 "2007-04-26T17:06:24Z")
The creepy hand thing he did to Pelosi was a lot funnier anyway. It’s on [Comedy Central](http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/player.jhtml?ml_video=&ml_collection=&ml_gateway=&ml_gateway_id=23786&ml_comedian=&ml_runtime=&ml_context=show&ml_origin_url=%2Fshows%2Fthe_daily_show%2Findex.jhtml&ml_playlist=&lnk=&is_large=true) right now. Look for the Mess O’ Potomac under the Daily Show’s “Recent Headlines”, with a blurb about the “creepy, creepy solidarity”. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/24 "2007-04-26T17:13:10Z")
[The New Republic](http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=102734) put the best response to the idiotic OP assertion: > [@](#): > > Here’s a Washington political riddle where you fill in the blanks: As Alberto Gonzales is to the Republicans, Blank Blank is to the Democrats… If you answered ‘Harry Reid,’ give yourself an A." > > So begins David Broder’s latest effort to force his shallow, utterly obsolete, both-parties-are-equally-to-blame-for-everything frame onto the news of the day. Is he suggesting that Reid is the beneficiary of rank cronyism? No. That he lies at the center of a fast-metastasizing scandal involving the politicization of law enforcement? Also no. That he is at best memory-challenged and at worst guilty of lying under oath? No, not that either. Rather the sum total of Broder’s argument is that, like Gonzales, Reid is “a continuing embarrassment thanks to his amateurish performance.” > > That’s not a column, it’s a sentence, and not a particularly persuasive one. Broder is referring, of course, to Reid’s comment that the Iraq war is lost–a gaffe certainly, though arguably one that fits the Kinsley definition. Broder bolsters his case with a few relatively obscure bloopers from Reid’s past (e.g., the time he called Bush a “loser”), but in essence his column is an effort to argue equivalence between Reid’s big mouth and Gonzales’s apparent role in politicizing the Justice Department. Reid may be an embarrassment, but Gonzales (pro-torture, anti-habeus, etc.) is an obscenity. It’s pathetic that any partisan is so desperate for a distraction from their own corruption (not to mention intellectually bankrupt) that they have to contrive some equivalency out of an overpriced apple and a 6-month old orange laced with arsenic. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/25 "2007-04-26T17:38:22Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] _(The idea that Broder is a partisan hack is simply ludicrous. He is not omniscient or even always right, but he does not play politics with his “voice” in the media.)_ [/QUOTE] **tom** , you forgot the ‘not’ after ‘Broder is.’ Let’s stay within your parameters. Broder doesn’t quote _Reid_ to demonstrate Reid’s poor communication in the ‘war is lost’ quote. He quotes _Schumer_. Just because Schumer managed to fall all over his own feet in trying to rationalize what Reid said, doesn’t mean what Reid says was confusing. But taking Schumer’s diahrrea of the mouth, and applying it to Reid’s case, sure does make Reid look stupid, if the reader’s not paying close attention. And then because _Schumer_ makes a fool of himself, Broder brings in Clinton’s pondering of the meaning of ‘is’ and applies it to Reid. Hackery, or having simply lost his marbles? We report, you decide. Can’t say I found the rest of Broder’s examples to be more than trivial stuff. That’s not hackery; I think maybe they just look like a far bigger deal to Broder than anyone outside the Beltway would. But even if they are, a few middlin’ gaffes over a period of years hardly add up to Gonzo’s truly impressive performance over a single day, which is the comparison Broder draws. Especially since Gonzo wasn’t _trying_ to communicate - quite the opposite. Gonzo’s testimony was a display of mendacity, not of failed communication. If Broder can’t see that, he’s politically blind. If he could, and was equating Reid with that, then he’s a partisan hack. And there’s the paragraph I cited earlier: > [@](#): > > Given the way the Constitution divides warmaking power between the president, as commander in chief, and Congress, as sole source of funds to support the armed services, it is essential that at some point Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi be able to negotiate with the White House to determine the course America will follow until a new president takes office. In short, Broder expects a certain standard of Reid, but not of Bush. Yes, Broder is a partisan hack. I’ll be happy to illustrate this with other recent columns, if you like. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/26 "2007-04-26T17:49:48Z")
And here’s [Think Progress](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/26/broder-reid-2/) tearing even more holes into Broder’s flimsy argument. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/27 "2007-04-26T18:02:26Z")
Can’t forget the way Broder [waxed indignant at Clinton](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/quinn110298.htm): > [@](#): > > “He came in here and he trashed the place,” says Washington Post columnist David Broder, “and it’s not his place.” Odd, the absence of any similar Broder comment about Bush, who _has_ trashed this place, replacing professional competence with political hackery in Federal agencies from Justice to FEMA. Instead, we get [tripe about how Bush](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/15/AR2007021501271.html) “has been impressive in recent days,” “is poised for a political comeback,” “has been far more accessible – and responsive – to the media and public,” and the like. Damned straight he’s a hack. The fact that he’s the Dean of Beltway Punditry doesn’t change that. As Moyers made clear last night, that title ain’t worth a tinker’s damn anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/28 "2007-04-26T18:42:36Z")
Evisceration of a political opponent, though sometimes an understandable impulse, would be forbidden by the Eighth Amendment. At least for those of us who think the Constitution reflects the government of today and not 1789. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/29 "2007-04-26T18:48:51Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Damned straight he’s a hack. The fact that he’s the Dean of Beltway Punditry doesn’t change that. As Moyers made clear last night, that title ain’t worth a tinker’s damn anyway. [/QUOTE] Define “Dean of the Beltway Punditry”, please. You referring to him as being like Howard Dean, or just the Grand Old Bastard of the Beltway Punditry? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/30 "2007-04-26T19:04:03Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Define “Dean of the Beltway Punditry”, please. You referring to him as being like Howard Dean, or just the Grand Old Bastard of the Beltway Punditry? [/QUOTE] In the sense of ‘respected senior member of a group.’ (See [here](http://www.answers.com/topic/dean).) Broder’s been known as ‘Dean’ of the D.C. pundit class for ages. [Here’s a reference to that effect from 1998.](http://www.dailyhowler.com/h090198_1.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/31 "2007-04-26T19:08:34Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] In the sense of ‘respected senior member of a group.’ (See [here](http://www.answers.com/topic/dean).) Broder’s been known as ‘Dean’ of the D.C. pundit class for ages. [Here’s a reference to that effect from 1998.](http://www.dailyhowler.com/h090198_1.shtml) [/QUOTE] Look at me! I’m gettin’ edumacated! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/32 "2007-04-26T19:46:35Z")
[Paul Begala (verbally) eviscerates David Broder](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/david-broder-is-a-gasbag_b_46923.html): > [@](#): > > Broder has been downright venomous lately. And what has put the Benzedrine in Mr. Broder’s Ovaltine? Not the fact that President Bush continues to lie about “progress” in the war in Iraq. Or that Dick Cheney continues to lie about pre-invasion links between al Qaeda and Iraq. Or that the Bush Administration has neglected our wounded warriors, ignored the victims of Katrina, potentially obstructed justice by firing US Attorneys who were pursuing GOP wrongdoing. Not even that the Bush Administration lied to the families of Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch, cynically using their blood to distract from their own incompetence and dishonesty. > > No, none of this raises Dean Broder’s hackles. > > He reserves his vitriol for Harry Reid. > > Why Reid? Because Reid has been one of the few politicians with the courage to speak the plain, unvarnished truth to power, and the hallmark of Mr. Broder’s career has been to suck up to power. Reid calls Bush a liar. Broder can’t handle the truth. > [@](#): > > But at the end of a career of sucking up to warmongers and Republicans, Mr. Broder has found his true hero in George W. Bush. Where others see a mush-mouthed semi-literate, Broder sees FDR: “As a counterpuncher to criticism and as a doubt-free exponent of his own beliefs, the current president is right up there with the inventor of the New Deal.” > > While others were shocked at Bush’s callous disregard for the lives of his fellow Americans during Hurricane Katrina, Broder wrote Katrina, “opens new opportunities for [Bush] to regain his standing with the public.” (Or at least those members of the public who did not drown due to Bush’s incompetence and inaction.) > > In February of this year, when the Bush collapse was evident for all to see, the visionary Mr. Broder saw something else. “President Bush is poised for a political comeback,” he wrote. And speaking of sucking up to warmongers, Atrios digs up this great (cue ominous music) [stab from the past](http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_04_22_archive.html#548844475362330923) in the form of Broder’s column from October 7, 1969. He’s been a hack in five different decades. A stunning record of achievement! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/33 "2007-04-26T20:09:57Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Just as Broder said, the Democrats and our country deserve better than Harry Reid. [/QUOTE] In the long run, yeah, sure, okay, maybe. Right now, though, we need somebody with the gumption to yank the pants off the former homecoming king. At that, Reid’s doing just fine. Anyone who gives an unapologetically hardline GOP adherent such conniptions is A-OK with me. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/34 "2007-04-26T20:26:27Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think that’s a good summary of Broder’s point, but it’s still not a very good point. Reid was making an off-the-cuff comment, and the Pubbies blew it all out of proportion. Congress is sending a bill to Bush, and that will stake out their position. The biggest roadblock to reaching a compromise will be Bush’s unwillingness to do so. Is Reid playing politics with the war? Yes, no, probably, who knows? These guys are all politicians, so of course they are going to “play politics”. And given the way this administration has politicized it’s so-called “War on Terror”, maybe the Democrats have no other choice if they want to be heard above the din. And while I still maintain that what Reid said was stupid, I’m much more interested in what the Democrats actually do than what any one of the says extemporaneously. They have a very difficult task ahead of them if they really want to end this war and bring the troops home (which I’m not sure they really want to do, at least not completely). [/QUOTE] …and once again John Mace presents the clearest-heading thinking on the subject. Many thanks. Much ado about nothing, etc. But yeah, it is indeed worth pointing out that a majority of Americans agree with Reid. That’s not an excuse, but it does provide context. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/35 "2007-04-26T22:16:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe Harry Reid is trying to use the war to maximize political troubles for the administration, which is despicable. If for no other reason, then for stealing the White House’s best material without paying royalties. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/36 "2007-04-27T06:12:18Z")
This just in… > [@](#): > > …Yesterday, ThinkProgress noted David Broder’s baseless claim that, thanks largely to his views on Iraq, a “long list of senators of both parties…are ready” for Sen. Harry Reid’s tenure as majority leader “to end.” Today, the Post publishes a letter to the editor signed by all 50 members of Reid’s caucus, praising him for his “extraordinary leadership… (From ThinkProgress at [http://thinkprogress.org/](http://thinkprogress.org/), original sources include [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/25/AR2007042502407.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/25/AR2007042502407.html) and [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/26/AR2007042602254.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/26/AR2007042602254.html)… you know, in case you’re about to say something snarkeleptic bout liberal blogs…) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/37 "2007-04-27T06:43:40Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Just as Broder said, the Democrats and our country deserve better than Harry Reid. [/QUOTE] Actually, both the Democrats and our country deserve much worse and much less than Harry Reid, but he’s the best we’re likely to get at the moment. A President Kucinich or, better still, a President Sanders would be the best-case scenario. But so what? Politics is the art of the possible. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/38 "2007-04-27T13:03:41Z")
He’s baaaack!! And giving a sloppy wet kiss to John McCain: [Straight Talking Again](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/26/AR2007042602047.html?hpid=opinionsbox1). In a nutshell, Broder thinks it’s great that McCain is running against Bush’s policies again, disregarding the fact that McCain has flipped from Bush opponent and critic (1999-May 2004) to Bush’s bestest buddy (June 2004 - last week) to sharp critic of Bush’s policies, though not Bush himself. What - accuse McCain of flipflopping? Not if you’re the Dean of Beltway Pundits. No, for Broder, it’s time to rejoice at McCain’s long-awaited return to Straight Talk. Yes, **tom** , Broder’s a partisan hack. Nevertheless, it was kind of him to provide a fresh example of his hackitude so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/39 "2007-04-27T13:34:55Z")
Anyone else think it is - um - at least bad manners, for someone to start a thread that many might consider provocative and that engenders considerable response, and not even check in again to say “How ya doin?” What a stand up guy! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/40 "2007-04-27T13:41:53Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] Anyone else think it is - um - at least bad manners, for someone to start a thread that many might consider provocative and that engenders considerable response, and not even check in again to say “How ya doin?” What a stand up guy! [/QUOTE] Yup, so much so that a lot if Evil Libruls stood up and welcomed back his thoughtful and rational posts. Wow, it’s very McCain like, actually. Huh. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729.md?page=3)