# David Broder eviscerates Harry Reid. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729 "2007-04-26T13:39:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/41 "2007-04-27T14:25:13Z")
[Speaking of McCain…](http://blog.washingtonpost.com/campaign-trail/2007/04/another_key_mccain_aide_depart.html?hpid=topnews) > [@](#): > > Another Key McCain Aide Departs > > ORANGEBURG, S.C. – In the midst of the Sen. John McCain’s presidential announcement tour comes news that Marlene Elwell – one of the Arizona Senator’s leading social conservative advocates – has parted ways with the campaign. > > Elwell, who was one of McCain’s chief liaisons to the faith community, confirmed her departure in a brief telephone interview this evening. She did not offer any further explanation on the decision. > > Elwell, who is based in Michigan, rose to prominence in social conservatives as a leading member of Pat Robertson’s campaign. She was also a prime mover in the Michigan effort to define marriage between a man and a woman that passed in 2004. Gee, now that, as Broder says, McCain’s becoming the ‘anti-Bush’ again, he’s dropping a prominent staffer who’s one of his main links to the religious wingnuts. It may be too early to say that McCain’s reversing his two-year-old ‘kiss up to the fundies’ strategy, but it’s worth watching to see if he does a full-fledged flip-flop here, too. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/42 "2007-04-27T14:32:59Z")
> [@](#): > > …Yesterday, ThinkProgress noted David Broder’s baseless claim that, thanks largely to his views on Iraq, a “long list of senators of both parties…are ready” for Sen. Harry Reid’s tenure as majority leader “to end.” Today, the Post publishes a letter to the editor signed by all 50 members of Reid’s caucus, praising him for his “extraordinary leadership… Could it be that Broder’s long list of Democrats consists of Joe Lieberman? As an ‘Independent Democrat’ and a ‘moderate’, Joe is a list unto himself. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/43 "2007-04-27T15:27:57Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Could it be that Broder’s long list of Democrats consists of Joe Lieberman? As an ‘Independent Democrat’ and a ‘moderate’, Joe is a list unto himself. [/QUOTE] You’ll note that he didn’t say “a long list of Senators of _each_ party,” which would have required multiple Democrats. “A long list of senators of both parties” needs only be long, and have at least one Senator from each party. So since Broder probably still thinks of Loserman as a Dem in good standing, a passel of concern-trolling Republican Senators plus Loserman would suffice, from his POV. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/44 "2007-04-27T15:36:23Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Could it be that Broder’s long list of Democrats consists of Joe Lieberman? As an ‘Independent Democrat’ and a ‘moderate’, Joe is a list unto himself. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty skeptical that Liebermann has said that he thinks Reid should step down. They may disagree with the war, but I think Joe is pretty careful not to openly critisize the Dem leadership like that. I just checked Lieberman’s website and his statement regarding Reid’s quote was that he “respectfully disagrees”. Hardly a vote of no confidence in the Senate leader. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/45 "2007-04-27T15:50:47Z")
Also, I assume that “all 50 members of Mr. Reid’s caucus” that signed the letter expressing support would include Lieberman. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/46 "2007-04-27T16:33:31Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] Also, I assume that “all 50 members of Mr. Reid’s caucus” that signed the letter expressing support would include Lieberman. [/QUOTE] Apparently, it does, but I haven’t found the complete list of signers yet. It begins to look like Broder just lied about the composition of his long list of senators. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/47 "2007-04-27T16:46:21Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Apparently, it does, but I haven’t found the complete list of signers yet. It begins to look like Broder just lied about the composition of his long list of senators. [/QUOTE] Libermann is deffinately a caucus member (I just double checked). There are technically 51 members, but I assume the missing name is Tim Johnson, the senator that was hospitilized shortly after the 2006 election. Had Liberman not signed, I don’t think the Washington paper that published the letter would’ve put “all members” at the end. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/48 "2007-04-27T22:19:25Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Apparently, it does, but I haven’t found the complete list of signers yet. It begins to look like Broder just lied about the composition of his long list of senators. [/QUOTE] Actually, it looks more like people are reading whatever they want into his words and then either claiming great victory (“eviscerate”?) or taking great umbrage over things he never said. No one has posted any quotation where he said that any senators were calling for Reid’s resignation. His explicit statement was > [@](#): > > And join the long list of senators of both parties who are ready for these two springtime exhibitions of ineptitude to end. That is not a call for anyone to be thrown out of office. It is a statement that the senate, in general, is tired of the screw-ups. It could be resolved by resignations or it could be resolved by the actors getting their acts together and behaving intelligently, but there is so much projection by those who really want to engage in partisanship that no one is actually respondoing to what Broder said but to what they want him to have said so that they can cheer or jeer. _(This is not a claim on my part that Broder is some “dean” of anything or that he is full of wisdom or that he has not been listing increasingly to starboard for the last 15 years, or so, or even that his opinion, in this case, is correct. It is simpy an observation that the real excessive partisanship occurs when people are more interested in cheering their side that they parade around acting as though he said something that is not actually discovered in the text of his piece.)_ ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/49 "2007-04-27T22:42:52Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Actually, it looks more like people are reading whatever they want into his words and then either claiming great victory (“eviscerate”?) or taking great umbrage over things he never said. > [@](#): > > And join the long list of senators of both parties who are ready for these two springtime exhibitions of ineptitude to end. No one has posted any quotation where he said that any senators were calling for Reid’s resignation… [/QUOTE] You know, I never claimed that any senators _had_ called for Reid’s resignation. Can you name a Democratic Senator who is ready for Reid’s ‘springtime ineptitude’ to end? Of course you can’t, and neither can Broder. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/50 "2007-04-27T22:56:14Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] You know, I never claimed that any senators _had_ called for Reid’s resignation. Can you name a Democratic Senator who is ready for Reid’s ‘springtime ineptitude’ to end? Of course you can’t, and neither can Broder. [/QUOTE] I think you could argue that Lieberman qualifies there, he certainly disagrees with Ried’s latest comments. I was going off **Elucidator’s** partial quote above, which does misrepresent Broder as talking about senators discussing Reid’s resignation rather then his "springtime ineptitude’. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/51 "2007-04-27T23:14:26Z")
**Squink** asked for a \*Democratic \* Senator. “Both parties” could, if one were being lawyerish enough, mean the Republicans and the Connecticut-for-Liebermans. But still, Broder is pulling the old false-equivalence\* tu quoque\* crap we so regularly see, and shoot down, right here in this forum. I wouldn’t call him a partisan, though, not exactly - he’s better defined as a Beltway media man, part of the permanent priesthood that considers itself the true custodians of the government, in alliance with the Providers of Access in the administration. Now that the order is being threatened, it is necessary to discredit the threateners. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/52 "2007-04-27T23:18:14Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] **Squink** asked for a \*Democratic \* Senator. “Both parties” could, if one were being lawyerish enough, mean the Republicans and the Connecticut-for-Liebermans. [/QUOTE] I guess, but if Broder said “both parties” and ment Lieberman, I wouldn’t say he was lying, since Lieberman is basically a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/53 "2007-04-27T23:19:11Z")
In what ways that matter? ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/54 "2007-04-27T23:29:13Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] In what ways that matter? [/QUOTE] He caucuses with the Dems, which matters a hell of a lot, as I’m sure Harry Reid would tell you. Grouping Lieberman and Sanders (the other senate independent who caucuses with the Dems) under the heading of “Democrats” when discussing the makeup of the senate or the party breakdown of votes is fairly SOP. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/55 "2007-04-27T23:46:17Z")
And the Pubs pointing to Fightin’ Joe’s warmongering, Defeatocrat-bashing rants as an example of “sanity” from the “Democrat party” is at least equally SOP. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/56 "2007-04-28T01:21:27Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] And the Pubs pointing to Fightin’ Joe’s warmongering, Defeatocrat-bashing rants as an example of “sanity” from the “Democrat party” is at least equally SOP. [/QUOTE] Has Liberman ever bashed the “Defeatocrats”? The statement about Reid’s statements I mentioned earlier were careful to be respectful of the senate leader even while disagreeing with his stance. In general Lieberman has seemed careful to keep his support for the war from becoming a criticism of the Dems in general. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/57 "2007-04-28T02:04:55Z")
It’s about all he does anymore. [Hours before Senate vote, Lieberman says proponents of Iraq withdrawal play into al-Qaida hands](http://www.journalinquirer.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18263852&BRD=985&PAG=461&dept_id=161556&rfi=6) > [@](#): > > “When politicians here declare that Iraq is ‘lost’ in reaction to al-Qaida’s terrorist attacks and demand timetables for withdrawal, they are doing exactly what al-Qaida hopes they will do, although I know that is not their intent,” he said. More directly, [War Is Not Lost, Lieberman Says, Unless Democrat Plan Is Followed](http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1502&status=article&id=262563217682186) Even without it, do you really think there’s a useful difference between “respectfully disagreeing” with the Democratic leader himself and with the rank-and-file that is unanimously behind him? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/58 "2007-04-28T02:17:05Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] _(This is not a claim on my part that Broder is some “dean” of anything or that he is full of wisdom or that he has not been listing increasingly to starboard for the last 15 years, or so, or even that his opinion, in this case, is correct. It is simpy an observation that the real excessive partisanship occurs when people are more interested in cheering their side that they parade around acting as though he said something that is not actually discovered in the text of his piece.)_ [/QUOTE] First rule of holes, **Tom**. Stop digging. Broder’s not just ‘listing to starboard,’ he’s being a hack about it, overlooking McCain’s massive flipflopping, while zeroing in on a few instances of Reid shooting from the hip, and equating that with Gonzales’ entire wall-to-wall day of incredible testimony before Congress. It’s possible for one to hold a POV but be fair to holders of other POVs. Broder isn’t even trying. That’s what makes him a partisan hack. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/59 "2007-04-28T02:39:27Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] First rule of holes, **Tom**. Stop digging. . . . It’s possible for one to hold a POV but be fair to holders of other POVs. Broder isn’t even trying. That’s what makes him a partisan hack. [/QUOTE] Of course, when one’s own perspective causes one to misread every statemenrt by any person who is not in 100% agreement with one’s own position, it is easy to cherry pick enough statements to “prove” whatever one wants. I see no significant difference between your characterization of Broder and your actions. You’re the one with the shovel. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729/60 "2007-04-28T04:32:36Z")
I think anyone, like Broder, who could ever write the words “I like Karl Rove” and wax lyrical about eating quail at his table and having long conversations with him may have pretty much come out of the partisan closet of his own accord. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-broder-eviscerates-harry-reid/401729.md?page=4)