David Brooks and his fellow travelers.

And I yet I was just a couple years younger and heard none of it. I didn’t hear about this whole lying aspect until around 2006, to be honest–when a lot of people said they’d known the whole time. Up until then, I thought Bush just had bad intelligence.

I don’t doubt that people were saying things. I do doubt that they had the reach necessary to convince anyone who wasn’t already looking. And that would be most people. If Congress could find enough people who believed that, they wouldn’t have overwhelmingly voted for the war.

But even if I grant that a lot of people knew, it still was nowhere near as clear as this case. There hasn’t even been an attempt to cover it up. Trump has been right out there saying the horrible things and revealing how horrible he is. His incompetence is open for all to see. His complete denial of all the morals that we share is plain.

As long as they are mentally competent, I can’t chalk up support for Trump as ignorance. I can for the Iraq War.

It was just too easy back then to believe the President. I know–I did.

First let’s dispense with the ignorance that Bush and Cheney did not knowingly lie. That the assessments of CIA were widely ignored in deference to Cheney’s hand-invented “intelligence” is too well demonstrated to require further discussion.

The ignorant meme that Hillary is a war-monger becuase she voted for the 2002 Resolution is very tiring. I already posted excerpts from her relevant Senate speech. Evidently those complaining found even that short excerpt too tiring for their tiny brains; here’s an ever briefer summary:

[QUOTE=Senator Clinton explaining her “Yea” vote]

However, [an immediate attack on Iraq] is fraught with danger…
If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us…
So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack … on the present facts is not a good option…
I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq. I know that the Administration wants more, including an explicit authorization to use force, but we may not be able to secure that now, perhaps even later…
If we get the resolution that President Bush seeks, and if Saddam complies, disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated…
Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely … I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go way with delay will oppose any UN resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.

This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make – any vote that may lead to war should be hard – but I cast it with conviction.
[/QUOTE]

Farnaby’s mental weakness is deep indeed, so I’m afraid he’ll be unable to read or understand even this briefer excerpt. My comments are directed at any sentient detractors who have stumbled into the thread.

Although she doesn’t make this point, Senator Clinton’s reasoning might suggest that, even knowing that Bush-Cheney were lying and intent on a stupid war, the War Resolution might have been preferable to letting Bush-Cheney pursue an illegal war alone. But regardless of how one feels about the War Resolution, and giving full credit to the relatively few Americans who knew in advance what a blunder Bush’s invasion of Iraq could be, to accuse all Senators who voted “Yea” of being war mongers is just too stupid to rebut.

Certainly it tells us little about Clinton, but a great deal about the morons who prattle this ignorant claim.

Yes, it would. Force is the only way it could be accomplished, which means war. Trump may well be too stupid to realize it, but that won’t make Mexico roll over and play dead when he decides to extort vast amounts of money out of them. No Mexican government could survive just submitting to Trump.

Can’t say I have a positive opinion about Hayek, but I hates Mises to pieces!

Too bad you didn’t simulpost that with someone, luc; you could have hollered “Jinx!”

Will Farnaby is still pissed off because years ago Brooks urged Republicans to drop their focus on limited government. And even worse, he called for Barack Obama to run for President.

Yes your citations of Hillary Clinton’s promotional brochures was absolutely devastating. Maybe next time you’ll cite the notes her grandmother wrote on her birthday cards and really slay me.

I’d actually welcome an Obama run.

Shouldn’t you be busy passing out cookies to neo-Nazis on the Maidan?

Of course the years of doubling down on the atrocity after the lies had been made obvious shouldn’t cause them to bat an eye.

Where did I say anything about Clinton? She has “repented”, no?

Once again, you show poor reading comprehension. I’m specifically talking about the people like Brooks who stand by the slaughter of innocents. Of course, as usual, you neglect the actual victims.

I get a good chuckle out of Septimus.

He sees a few key words and that prompts some canned diatribe that is kind of relevant to the general topic, but shows no evidence that he actually reads in the way a human does.

Let’s try a few:

Inflation
Milton Bradley
The Freedman
George Clinton
WAR
Bush

Shouldn’t you be at the black-tie RT dinner party along with the rest of Donald Trump’s campaign?

Trump honestly thinks he’s going to renegotiate every agreement the United States has ever made and he thinks everyone else in the world will agree to new deals that leave them disadvantaged. He honestly doesn’t think he has to go to war with Mexico to get what he wants.

Consider this exchange - from when Trump was talking about ditching our NATO allies if they don’t meet some new conditions (ie- fork over their protection money.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-issues.html

I swear that Donald’s suffering some form of dementia.

David Brooks is one of those people whose support I welcome, but I would still hold at arm’s length. As one of those conservative-despised “intellectuals”, I’m sure he sees the pitchforks and torches in the mob of Tea Party lunatics coming for him should they ever completely take over the GOP. He’s doing this as a self-preservation tactic, nothing more, anyone can see that Trump’s going to lose badly. Like Ted Cruz, he’s positioning himself to say “I told you so” after the angry racist Trump supporters lose to their most hated foe. A real pivot would be to completely repudiate conservative Republican thought. Which brings me to this:

You’re of the conservative/faux-libertarian bent. What I said about Brooks applies to you. If you think you and people like you are going to get a pass just because you have a couple of differences here and there with the main GOP platform, I’ve got news for you pal, you and your type are what enabled Trump and the Tea Party to take over the GOP. No amount of ranting against a couple of GOP collaborators will make you out to be different than them.

You think taxes are extortion.

You think being president is easy, like a company trying to keep market share.

You think Obama supports torture.

You somehow believe that Obama should appeal to your personal standard of specific presidential qualificationswhen the other guy is much worse on pretty much everything.

Your lack of understanding of how money is valued is dangerously ignorant.

In short, until you stop trying to pretend to be the smartest guy in the room by railing against a few universally loathed positions Trump has, you’re part of the problem, even if you temporarily suppress that to vote Not Trump in the election

Your Muslim terrorist heroes should stop making that region of the world an unending hellscape then.

Since it angers you, there’s one. Try not to cry :slight_smile:

They know.

In case you’re confused, no one gives a fuck who you give a “pass” to. HTH.

I care. YogSothoth is a cool dude. And on the other hand, you haven’t figured out how to multiquote.