# David Brooks is afraid of what Republicans are turning into... and that's saying something **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 18, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580 "2021-11-18T21:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/61 "2021-11-20T13:47:01Z")
I’m sorry for any confusion, but who said anything about Biden sucking up to Moveon? Please circle back if/when you locate and follow the thread. I’m not in the mood for a weird merry-go-round. It was a simple, easy to digest observation and yet somehow the trail was lost few steps in. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/62 "2021-11-20T13:48:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That’s the position of all the never-Trumpers. They’re horrified twice over. Once because they’ve seen what they created and once because they realize they now have no power and nobody is listening to them. I think “twice over” is taking it a bit far. I don’t believe for one second that never-Trumpers like David Brooks acknowledge or regret their role in creating Trump. Their rallying cry to the end will always will be, “look what wokeism made the right-wingers do.” They’re the worst faction out there because of their capacity for deluding themselves and others, combined with the right’s bottomless craving for pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-elite validation to buff a patina of legitimacy onto a bunch of bloodthirsty racist rednecks. Until now. The masks have dropped, the hoods are on. There are no more paychecks to be cashed for conservative intellectualism. That’s what people like Brooks and French are terrified of. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/63 "2021-11-20T13:51:08Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > I don’t see how this speaks against the proposition that Republicans and related entities and people pander/suck up to their irrationals just as hard as the Democratic. Oh, Republicans suck up/pander to Trump’s base much harder than any irrational Democratic pandering. That’s first. Second, if you don’t know why the tire tracks on Liz Cheney’s back show this, then ask yourself this question: Why did they do that? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/64 "2021-11-20T13:57:01Z")
I thought you said that the Democrats suck up to their insane and irrational base as much as Republicans do: > [@Fallen](#): > > The content may not be the same but, yes, they do suck up and pander just as hard. Then, you provided a link to Moveon and something about Rittenhouse. So, I provided an example of a Democrat, the leader of the party, not sucking up to them. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/65 "2021-11-20T13:58:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What Republicans do with their irrationals, like Greene and Boebert, is elect them. You can’t get much more sucking-up than that. > > Cite for any elected Democrat as irrational as Greene or Boebert? If you expect a discussion with me vs. whomever else based on an observation of mine, you need to be somewhere on the same page vs. unilateral wandering into another chapter if not book and expecting engagement on a mash-up. Constituents (necessarily including irrationals) elected a couple of (I’d say far beyond merely) irrationals. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/66 "2021-11-20T14:08:21Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Oh, Republicans suck up/pander to Trump’s base much harder than any irrational Democratic pandering. That’s first. Here I can identify one more item to indicate we’re not on same page and my observation might be subject to deliberate or unintentional garbling: you may think I’m referring only to “Trump’s base”. I disagree they are the only folks who are not logical and reasonable. You’ll forgive me if I take this latest as a cue not to circle back yet again. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/67 "2021-11-20T14:09:08Z")
Speaking of tire tracks, this is tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/68 "2021-11-20T14:23:27Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > OK here’s a quick challenge. Put up or shut up. I find it hard to believe folks (that is, other than similarly situated folks) actually engage with you on a routine basis if this is how you approach interaction. Have the day you deserve (which may or may not be my idea of lovely). ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/69 "2021-11-20T14:44:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Oh _that_ kind of counterfactual. Forgive me. With the Trump years I’d grown to understand that counterfactual was more like: “Masks don’t protect against a viral spread.” Or “Voter fraud led to a rigged election.” Or “My inauguration crowd was bigger than the crowd at President Obama’s inauguration. FWIW, you evidently but incorrectly decided that I’d disclosed the counterfactual content in the Moveon solicitation. I didn’t. Evidently you didn’t receive the same email. Consider it a small mercy. I submit that it’s worth considering that you might - if possible - disengage the overbearing, smug snark feature and focus on processing only the words presented - in context - versus unilaterally edit them by addition and/or subtraction … or otherwise garbling the topic. That is, if you expect interaction with folks willing to engage with the seemingly chronically unserious and [withheld because it’s gratuitously harsh]. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/70 "2021-11-20T14:56:29Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > (For clarity, these are the words of David Brooks, not **ThelmaLou**. But they’re in her OP) > First, the people over 50 who have been hanging around conservative circles for decades but who have recently been radicalized by the current left. If you’ve been _radicalized_, it’s difficult to justify calling you a _conservative_. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/71 "2021-11-20T15:58:00Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Or “My inauguration crowd was bigger than the crowd at President Obama’s inauguration.” You misspelled “dick.” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/72 "2021-11-20T16:10:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If you’ve been _radicalized_ , it’s difficult to justify calling you a _conservative_ . _Radical_ adj.: 1. (especially of change or action) relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or thorough. 2. advocating or based on thorough or complete political or social change; representing or supporting an **extreme** or progressive section of a political party. (bolding mine) noun: 1. a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social reform; a member of a political party or part of a party pursuing such aims. Don’t see nuthin’ restricting conservatives from being radical, especially when rather than keeping the status quo, they want to roll back to something in the past, real or imagined. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/73 "2021-11-20T16:57:02Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > I submit that it’s worth considering that you might - if possible - I submit that it’s worth considering that you might - if possible - actually provide evidence of your assertions instead of a link to moveon’s home page and condescension before complaining about others being dissatisfied with your lack of evidence. That is, if you expect interaction with folks willing to engage with the seemingly chronically factually-challenged like yourself. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/74 "2021-11-20T16:59:00Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > When conservatives oppose change, one reason often given is that changing too much/too fast can lead to unintended and undesirable side effects. In light of this, a conservative who wants to radically change things–even back to the way they used to be–would seem to be at least, conflicted. A sometimes-proposed example: ending Social Security. Yes, the program didn’t exist before 1935. But ending it now would plunge lots of people into poverty. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/75 "2021-11-20T17:02:29Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > Constituents (necessarily including irrationals) elected a couple of (I’d say far beyond merely) irrationals. What constituents? What irrationals? Name names. > [@Fallen](#): > > FWIW, you evidently but incorrectly decided that I’d disclosed the counterfactual content in the Moveon solicitation. I didn’t. What email are you talking about? I’ve never seen any left-wing email that out-and-out lies about reality or claims that Obama is still president or that the earth is flat. The right send that stuff out six times before breakfast. If you have examples, show your work. But you don’t. You’re admitting that you’ve provided no evidence about your claim here in this thread in your actual words, yet you’re complaining that we’re not understanding what you’re talking about. Nope. We don’t have a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/76 "2021-11-20T17:21:18Z")
I provided no link; that’s this system turning the reference to “moveon[dot]org” into one. I’d appreciate it if you’d refrain from chiming in/piling on inside what I deem a personal interaction unrelated to the topic at hand. I don’t see what’s inadequate about an observation that both major political entities sucking up and pandering includes those who suffer from a(n extreme) lack of logic and reasonableness … which may or may not in your view include or exclude the absolute malignant “lunatic fringe”. Non-lunatic fringe aka otherwise so-called “normal” folks can and do suffer from extreme lack of logic and reasonableness. Anyone who asserts this is not the case cannot (rather should not) enjoy being treated as a serious person. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/77 "2021-11-20T17:26:33Z")
I’d appreciate it if you backed up your assertions instead of spewing. Guess neither of us are going to be happy, huh? Or you can keep whinging that people are being unfair and mean because they asked you to back up your bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/78 "2021-11-20T17:29:59Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > If you expect a discussion with me vs. whomever else based on an observation of mine There is no “observation”. You were specifically asked to present your “observation” (an observed case of Democratic irrationality comparable to the observed cases of Republican irrationality) and repeatedly failed to do so. If you want to discuss your “notions” or “opinions”, accepting that they are not based on any _observed_ phenomena, go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/79 "2021-11-20T17:35:08Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > I don’t see what’s inadequate about an observation that both major political entities sucking up and pandering includes those who suffer from a(n extreme) lack of logic and reasonableness … which may or may not in your view include or exclude the absolute malignant “lunatic fringe”. It is inadequate for being [a fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence) > This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show [equivalence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_equivalence), especially in [order of magnitude](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_magnitude), when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence#cite_note-2) False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence does not bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on [oversimplification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversimplification) or ignorance of additional factors. The pattern of the fallacy is often as such: “If A is the set of c and d, and B is the set of d and e, then since they both contain d, A and B are equal”. d is not required to exist in both sets; only a passing similarity is required to cause this fallacy to be used. > > False equivalence arguments are often used in journalism[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence#cite_note-3)[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence#cite_note-4) and in politics, where flaws of one politician may be compared to flaws of a wholly different nature of another.[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence#cite_note-5) Again I agree with others, besides not giving evidence for the levels of lunacy coming from the Democratic Party that you are talking about, the current leadership of the Republican Party has many members that don’t need to pander, as they are the irrational ones, the problem here is that most of the ones that claim to be reasonable Republicans are not telling the irrational ones that they are wrong, like McCain did when he told a guest in a political rally that she was wrong about Obama not being an American citizen or a Muslim. And so the lunacy allowed in one party is not the same as in the other one. Far from it, the current leader of the minority in the house has promised that he will restore the positions that Gozar and Greene lost to the committees that they belonged because of their nuttery. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-brooks-is-afraid-of-what-republicans-are-turning-into-and-thats-saying-something/954580/80 "2021-11-20T17:40:44Z")
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