# David Jason wasn't being rascist **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852 "2009-03-26T11:31:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/21 "2009-03-26T14:18:37Z")
> [@Švejk](#): > > In the interest of fighting ignorance: there’s racism, there’s fascism, but no rascism. Doh! Although perhaps the term “rascist” might be appropriate for Daily Mail readers (yes I’m aware of the irony of demonising and generalising this section of the population). > [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > Are you seriously telling me this is just a “silly name” joke? Hmm, funny name jokes do tend to offend, now I think about it. And he should’ve realised that. But really, IMO, funny name jokes _shouldn’t_ offend people, at least not one as tame as this. > [@](#): > > The most telling aspect of it is that the “joke” would not work as “well” if you replaced Pakistani with Indian. This is because there is a recognised genre of “Paki” jokes in the UK, and not Indian jokes. The joke doesn’t “work” at all, but I think it wouldn’t change the quality of the joke if it were an Indian cloakroom attendant (actually, I would have got the joke quicker if it had). It’s just indicative of general ignorance that the joke uses Pakistani. * * * One thing that’s only just come to mind is that _Only fools and horses_ actually appears quite a racist show by modern sensibilities. To the extent that there are certain episodes that I’ll bet the BBC will never show again. But, again, it’s just a matter of ignorance; I don’t doubt the _intentions_ of the writers to realistically portray ethnic minorities in London and how they were treated within society (though obviously in a comedy way because it’s a comedy show). I could be wrong on this though; I don’t remember every episode and perhaps there were some that seemed to show genuine racism. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/22 "2009-03-26T14:22:46Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > You’ve made that word up! It doesn’t get a single Google hit. I think I know what you mean, though.Would you tell it in a crowded pub in Cork? **jjimm’s** plumy English accent would be more offensive 😃 He’d get away with the joke though as it would be just seen as a stupid childish joke. Only a person actively looking to be offended would rise to it. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/23 "2009-03-26T14:24:26Z")
W.C. Fields used to take his writing credit as “Mahatma Kane Jeeves”. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/24 "2009-03-26T14:25:35Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > I’m not in a huff at all. I never really liked David Jason, but he is a much beloved, national institution kind of a figure in the UK, and this is a dissapointing and wildly misjudged slip on his part. **Wildly** misjudged? I have to say I think that is a big exaggeration. I’d say it’s more a case of a silly joke said by a famous person on a slow news day. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/25 "2009-03-26T14:30:42Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > I’m not in a huff at all. I never really liked David Jason, but he is a much beloved, national institution kind of a figure in the UK, and this is a dissapointing and wildly misjudged slip on his part. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean you. 🙂 I never got the impression you were really in much of a huff about it, just faintly irritated. It was more in general, I guess - musing. And yes, it’s stupid and ignorant, and it’s not so much about Pakistanis being confused for Indians\*, it’s just about degrading us all to “those weird brown people”. I would have hoped we had gotten somewhat past that. Us brown people have families just like anyone else, we worry about our kids, we worry about bills and work and everything. We’re not that alien. \*Not that Pakistanis and Indians have not been confused. But there is a vast amount of difference between “Are you from Pakistan?” and being from India, and “I’m going down to to the Happy Paki store” - something I have heard around here. The store owners here are Afghani, South Indian, and Pakistani - so I guess 1 out of 3 ain’t bad. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/26 "2009-03-26T15:03:33Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Doh! > Although perhaps the term “rascist” might be appropriate for Daily Mail readers > (yes I’m aware of the irony of demonising and generalising this section of the population). you shouldn’t generalise groups of people; they do that in Russia! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/27 "2009-03-26T15:22:32Z")
“Foreigners have funny names” jokes are stupid and are based on an underlying mutual agreement between joke-teller and joke-hearer that “foreigners should be reasonable and have sensible names, like we do.” ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/28 "2009-03-26T15:25:49Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > “Foreigners have funny names” jokes are stupid and are based on an underlying mutual agreement between joke-teller and joke-hearer that “foreigners should be reasonable and have sensible names, like we do.” Just like Wojohowicz, or Krakowsky, or Chiera. Goddamn those foreigners! Why my last name is a whole FIVE LETTERS LONG. I obviously can’t expect anyone to get it right; it’s just too alien. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/29 "2009-03-26T15:28:25Z")
I take all credit for “offenderatesque”. You heard it here first, folks! > [@yojimbo](#): > > **jjimm’s** plumy English accent would be more offensive 😃 “Well spoken”, not plummy. I’m offended, you big feckin’ Mick. The “Mahatma Coat” joke is ancient, but I’ve never heard it used with the “Pakistani” nationality - only ever Indian. Which does reflect badly on Mr Jason. What do you call a Frenchman with his feet in the water? Pierre! I guess it would be daft if the Frenchman were substituted with a German or something. And I’m not even going to go there about the Arab with Parkinson’s Disease and two pieces of cured pork on his head. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/30 "2009-03-26T15:30:47Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Just like Wojohowicz, or Krakowsky, or Chiera. Goddamn those foreigners! Why my last name is a whole FIVE LETTERS LONG. I obviously can’t expect anyone to get it right; it’s just too alien. The yanks can’t even get Mahoney and Kinsella right 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/31 "2009-03-26T15:34:32Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > The yanks can’t even get Mahoney and Kinsella right 😉 Hey! I’m a Yank\*, you Irish git! And I try really hard to get names correct, because I get mine misspelled at me all the time. And mispronounced. But seriously - it’s all about your frame of reference. I was just talking about this to a friend. It seems some people have a really hard time conceiving of anything outside of their fram of reference as being “normal”. I notice this way less in people who have been raised bilingual or bicultural from the start. They are just used to the fact that the way they think of things is not the only way. \*If by Yank you mean American. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/32 "2009-03-26T15:39:34Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > For a long time, and still to a certain extent, anyone with somewhat “brown” skin in the UK was dubbed a “paki”, a sign of ignorance and highly offensive. So yes, that is what part of this is about. Not quite. Anyone of South Asian, and _maybe_ Arabic descent, yes. But I never saw anyone running around Twickenham yelling “Paki go home!” to Greek people. Personally, I don’t find the joke offensive at all. It’s not funny, and very faintly smells of racism, but it’s not a big deal. > [@Anaamika](#): > > And yes, it’s stupid and ignorant, and it’s not so much about Pakistanis being confused for Indians\*, it’s just about degrading us all to “those weird brown people”. I would have hoped we had gotten somewhat past that. Us brown people have families just like anyone else, we worry about our kids, we worry about bills and work and everything. We’re not that alien. > > \*Not that Pakistanis and Indians have not been confused. But there is a vast amount of difference between “Are you from Pakistan?” and being from India, and “I’m going down to to the Happy Paki store” - something I have heard around here. The store owners here are Afghani, South Indian, and Pakistani - so I guess 1 out of 3 ain’t bad. :rolleyes: Strangely, I got about a million times more racist crap in Britain than I ever have in the States, even though most Britons\* _do_ know the difference between Indians, Pakistanis, and even Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans. Where I grew up (Somerset), I was the only Indian kid for miles around. It wasn’t even like it was me and the local GP’s\*\* kids- my mother _was_ the local GP. And yet there were no real racists around. There was plenty of patronizing and/or ignorant stuff, but no genuine hatred. I had to move to Birmingham (where Indians are practically the majority) to experience _real_ racism. \*In big communities, anyway. \*\*South Asians make up an even larger percentage of British physicians than they do American ones. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/33 "2009-03-26T15:54:16Z")
Very much a storm in a tea cup,what a waste of outrage. I’d take the situation more seriously if Indians/Pakistanis were up in arms about it in large numbers but not so much when others take it upon themselves speak up for the other ethnicities on their behalf. It tends to trivialise racism when there are some very real,very serious cases of racial abuse being perpetrated and causing the victims very real suffering. Plus whether or not your opinion is based on the fact that you dont personally like the artist yourself is not very persuasive to the rest of us who base their own opinions on a more factual basis. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/34 "2009-03-26T15:59:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Strangely, I got about a million times more racist crap in Britain than I ever have in the States, even though most Britons\* _do_ know the difference between Indians, Pakistanis, and even Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans. And you know, it’s kind of their fault we’re even in Britain. 300 years, man! Some of us just followed them home. The place I got the most outright and overt racism was in TN - but I have never lived in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/35 "2009-03-26T15:59:19Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Very much a storm in a tea cup,what a waste of outrage. > I’d take the situation more seriously if Indians/Pakistanis were up in arms about it in large numbers but not so much when others take it upon themselves speak up for the other ethnicities on their behalf. I wouldn’t go there. It’s nice to have someone to speak for you that clearly isn’t acting out of self-interest; without members of the majority working on their behalf, minorities don’t accomplish much. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/36 "2009-03-26T16:06:12Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The “Mahatma Coat” joke is ancient, but I’ve never heard it used with the “Pakistani” nationality - only ever Indian. Which does reflect badly on Mr Jason. Agreed, as it strongly suggests that he was really telling what he knew as a ‘Paki’ joke, and substituted ‘Pakistani’ in the mistaken belief that the word itself was the only offensive thing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/37 "2009-03-26T16:15:11Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Very much a storm in a tea cup,what a waste of outrage. If anyone in this thread was actually outraged you might have the beginnings of a point. As to only the victims of racism being allowed to complain about it? Well, that’s just silly, and well dealt with by **RNATB** above. > [@](#): > > Plus whether or not your opinion is based on the fact that you dont personally like the artist yourself is not very persuasive to the rest of us who base their own opinions on a more factual basis. Where did I say that this is what my opinion was based on? [QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Not quite. Anyone of South Asian, and maybe Arabic descent, yes. But I never saw anyone running around Twickenham yelling “Paki go home!” to Greek people. [/QUOTE] Completely agreed, and not what I meant to suggest.\* Just to clear things up I’m not Greek, despite the hilarious name. \*I do live in Greece though, and there are a minority of people in my neck of the woods who could just about pass for being from South / Central Asia. A lot of Moorish / Saracen pirates back in the day, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/38 "2009-03-26T16:23:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I wouldn’t go there. It’s nice to have someone to speak for you that clearly isn’t acting out of self-interest; without members of the majority working on their behalf, minorities don’t accomplish much. So you dont believe that the degree of professed outrage at a poor joke, (and lets be totally honest here,(are we saying that people of other ethnicities dont make jokes about white people in general and other nationalities?) doesn’t trivialsie genuine cases of racial abuse? The easiest way to lose the majoritys sympathy with oppressed minorities is to keep professing outrage,shock and horror at an incident like this so that in the end they simply stop listening, even when they are being told about a genuine case of racist abuse. It may not sound nice but the Human race in general aren’t saints whatever their ethnicity, and recreational outrage far from helping the oppressed tends to try the patience of the average person in the street and ultimately harms the victims plight long term rather then help them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/39 "2009-03-26T16:28:42Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > So you dont believe that the degree of professed outrage at a poor joke, > (and lets be totally honest here,(are we saying that people of other ethnicities dont make jokes about white people in general and other nationalities?) > doesn’t trivialsie genuine cases of racial abuse? In this _particular_ case, I don’t think Indians or Pakistanis need anyone speaking for them. However, your post reads like criticism for people who aren’t the victims speaking up against racism in any case, which I don’t agree with. As far as whether I believe the level of outrage, I believe the posters here (such as **PM** ) are genuinely offended. Do I believe that some upper management type or spokesman at the BBC is genuinely offended if they make the usual “this is not representative of our views and we deplore racism” noises? Probably not. ETA: I don’t remember what channel _OFAH_ was on. Substitute ITV if it wasn’t on BBC. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/40 "2009-03-26T16:29:11Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > If anyone in this thread was actually outraged you might have the beginnings of a point. As to only the victims of racism being allowed to complain about it? Well, that’s just silly, and well dealt with by **RNATB** above. Your aggressive, and I would say exaggerated, criticism of the “racism” inherent in this extremely infantile and unfunny joke certainly gives the impression of outrage. If that isn’t your intent, you should at least be aware of how you are coming across. And certainly anyone can complain about racism, but (particularly as someone who is not directly affected) you would be wise to pick your battles carefully, to avoid looking foolish and accomplishing exactly the opposite of what is ostensibly your goal. (On preview, what **Lust4Life** said.) I’m surprised to learn that Pakistani is a race. What were they before the partitioning? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852.md?page=3)