# David Jason wasn't being rascist **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852 "2009-03-26T11:31:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/41 "2009-03-26T16:35:20Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > “Foreigners have funny names” jokes are stupid > … Agreed. > [@](#): > > and are based on an underlying mutual agreement between joke-teller and joke-hearer that “foreigners should be reasonable and have sensible names, like we do.” Disagreed. It’s just a play on words, nothing (necessarily) more. I mean I could contrive such a joke using a standard Western name: “What do call a man who eats haggis? Scott.” It’s a crap joke but it’s just to illustrate that such jokes don’t necessarily need to be about “foreigners silly names that we all hate”. > [@Mijin](#): > > One thing that’s only just come to mind is that Only fools and horses actually appears quite a racist show by modern sensibilities. To the extent that there are certain episodes that I’ll bet the BBC will never show again. Great point **Mijin** , and if I may elaborate on it… _Only fools and horses_ is often cited (and voted) one of the nation’s best-loved comedies. And yet, Del Boy told semi-racist jokes like this. If you look at it from DJ’s point of view, all he’s done is tell a joke like his character on the programme would have, on one of the nation’s favourite shows. So perhaps this is why he didn’t realise the offence he could cause. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/42 "2009-03-26T16:37:47Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m surprised to learn that Pakistani is a race. What were they before the partitioning? They didn’t exist. “Pakistan” is not based on some ancient Urdu/Sanskrit/Arabic root word; it’s a coinage. Before partition, Pakistanis were just angry Indian Muslims. However, racism is correctly used to describe ethnic or cultural hatred as well as hatred of those of another “race”. FWIW, most of the peoples who now populate the Indian subcontinent are descended from the same Aryan tribes who gave rise to most of the inhabitants of northern and western Europe… so Indians and Pakistanis are essentially Caucasian. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/43 "2009-03-26T16:38:18Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > The easiest way to lose the majoritys sympathy with oppressed minorities is to keep professing outrage,shock and horror at an incident like this so that in the end they simply stop listening, even when they are being told about a genuine case of racist abuse. Who is it that gets do decide which are ‘genuine’ cases? You? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/44 "2009-03-26T16:41:48Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m surprised to learn that Pakistani is a race. What were they before the partitioning? ‘Race’ can be defined in all sorts of ways, which can include shared language, religion, history or culture. Having one’s own country isn’t a prerequisite - take the Kurds, for just one example. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/45 "2009-03-26T16:44:41Z")
Plus, “creedism” just sounds stupid. > [@](#): > > Only fools and horses is often cited (and voted) one of the nation’s best-loved comedies. And yet, Del Boy told semi-racist jokes like this. If you look at it from DJ’s point of view, all he’s done is tell a joke like his character on the programme would have, on one of the nation’s favourite shows. So perhaps this is why he didn’t realise the offence he could cause. I watched it for years and I don’t remember any racist jokes. I was particularly sensitive to them at the time, too, so I’m sure I would have noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/46 "2009-03-26T17:13:39Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Your aggressive, and I would say exaggerated, criticism of the “racism” inherent in this extremely infantile and unfunny joke certainly gives the impression of outrage. If that isn’t your intent, you should at least be aware of how you are coming across. And certainly anyone can complain about racism, but (particularly as someone who is not directly affected) you would be wise to pick your battles carefully, to avoid looking foolish and accomplishing exactly the opposite of what is ostensibly your goal. Where are you getting aggression and outrage from? Give me a quote to back that up. And I’m not picking a battle, just giving my opinion on a thread on a message board. Get a grip. Let me try to clarify my position, just in case. I am disappointed, mildly irritated, and very surprised that someone like David Jason, who is not, AFAIK, in his dotage, and is well respected in the cultural milieu of the UK, could still think that this kind of humour, on national radio, would go uncommented on - or indeed should. The outrage isn’t coming from me. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/47 "2009-03-26T17:22:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I watched it for years and I don’t remember any racist jokes. I was particularly sensitive to them at the time, too, so I’m sure I would have noticed. Well, my googling is letting me down today. But apparently the original series used the word “paki” several times (and, in fact, so did the relatively recent Christmas special :smack:). Apparently the term is used in contexts like “the paki shop”. I’m not citing because I’ve found this from reading several OFaH forums, no good sources. My recollection is that the black character on the series had a number of jokes directed at him that would be considered racist today. But can’t find any quotes. I’m happy if I’m proven wrong on this, since any racist comment that Del Boy ever said could probably be used now to cement the image of David Jason the Racist in people’s minds. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/48 "2009-03-26T17:34:05Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > But apparently the original series used the word “paki” several times (and, in fact, so did the relatively recent Christmas special :smack:). > Apparently the term is used in contexts like “the paki shop”. I’m not citing because I’ve found this from reading several OFaH forums, no good sources. This one’s interesting, in that the joke is on the old man’s prejudices: > [@](#): > > Uncle Albert: The Paki shop won’t let us have nothing on tick! Says it’s part of his culture! > Rodney: Don’t think it’s got anything to do with the 46 quid we already owe 'em do you? [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081912/quotes](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081912/quotes) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/49 "2009-03-26T17:39:23Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > Where are you getting aggression and outrage from? Give me a quote to back that up. > > And I’m not picking a battle, just giving my opinion on a thread on a message board. Get a grip. Thank you, I assure you that I have a firm, two-handed grip as we speak. Were I to quote, it would be the entirety of your posts so far in this thread, which would be impractical and, in the end, an unreliable measurement of your blood pressure. So I will concede that you have made multiple contentious posts (more than any other poster in this thread, if I’m not mistaken) on a subject you care little about. And speakers of English, at least where I’m from, use the phrase “pick your battles” idiomatically. It doesn’t literally imply donning a suit of armor and galloping off to war, but more like (at least as I interpret it) consider the consequences, both intended and unintended, of each confrontation you make—the effect on your appearance of credibility for future, perhaps more important arguments, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/50 "2009-03-26T17:40:05Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > Pfft! There are plenty of jokes about names. Using such names as: > > Ivanna Tinkle > Amanda Screw > Dick Burns > [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > Not if they’re over six years old, they don’t. Pretty sure the writing staff on “The Simpsons” is over 6, and they’ve used “Ivanna Tinkle” and similar names. Funny-name humor is also a staple on public radio’s “A Prairie Home Companion.” > [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > That everyone is pig ignorant about Pakistan and India and can’t distinguish between them. That Mahatma is actually a first name. That Coat is a reasonable surname. Actually, the joke, such as it is, works whether Mahatma is a name or a title. > [@](#): > > Are you seriously telling me this is just a “silly name” joke? That we are not being invited to laugh at the funny Pakistani with his funny name? The hosts of “Car Talk” routinely thank their Russian chauffeur, “Pickup Andropov.” There is a history of anti-Russian sentiment in this country, and I’m pretty sure “Pickup” is not a reasonable Russian name, but it’s still just a silly joke. > [@jjimm](#): > > What do you call a Frenchman with his feet in the water? Pierre! Eh, what? I don’t get it. I heard it was a dehydrated Frenchman. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/51 "2009-03-26T17:41:40Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Eh, what? I don’t get it. I heard it was a dehydrated Frenchman. Set your expectations lower, and sound it out. You’ll get it. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/52 "2009-03-26T17:54:33Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > _Only fools and horses_ is often cited (and voted) one of the nation’s best-loved comedies. And yet, Del Boy told semi-racist jokes like this. If you look at it from DJ’s point of view, all he’s done is tell a joke like his character on the programme would have, on one of the nation’s favourite shows. So perhaps this is why he didn’t realise the offence he could cause. Well, _Fawlty Towers_ is well-regarded too, but John Cleese would be a fool to launch into a dissertation about “niggers” and “wogs” during a radio interview. > [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > I am disappointed, mildly irritated, and very surprised that someone like David Jason, who is not, AFAIK, in his dotage, and is well respected in the cultural milieu of the UK, could still think that this kind of humour, on national radio, would go uncommented on - or indeed should. I never heard of David Jason until today, but I can get behind this to a point. There are some things that you just don’t say in public without being prepared for a negative reaction, even if you think it’s unreasonable. People have the right to say them, but others have the right to criticize them as well. > [@](#): > > Set your expectations lower, and sound it out. You’ll get it. I understand “pee air.” That’s why I thought “dehydrated Frenchman” was funny. I don’t get what it has to do with standing in water. Maybe I need another cup of coffee. Better yet, I could just stop thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/53 "2009-03-26T18:03:38Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Maybe I need another cup of coffee. Better yet, I could just stop thinking about it. Set 'em much much lower. What do you call a Serbian prostitute? Ripyanikasov Onyabakyabic. (Apologies for both the misogyny and the racism and cultural stereotyping. I’m just reporting it. Don’t shoot the messegner.) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/54 "2009-03-26T18:17:47Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Well, _Fawlty Towers_ is well-regarded too, but John Cleese would be a fool to launch into a dissertation about “niggers” and “wogs” during a radio interview. Well, he would be a fool because it’s more blatant in that series. No-one’s going to think the n-word is still acceptible. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/55 "2009-03-26T18:25:25Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > I did not know that. Thanks. > > My apologies for highjacking the thread, but can you tell me something else? I have recently read a book by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche. I know that Rinpoche is an honorific, but if I were writing about his book, how would I address him? Might I say “Mr. Mingyur’s book …”? Sorry, can’t help you with that one. The proper meaning of Mahatma has been ingrained with me ever since a schoolmate got into an argument with the teacher over whether it was Gandhi’s first name (the teacher was in the wrong). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/56 "2009-03-26T18:31:22Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > Sorry, can’t help you with that one. The proper meaning of Mahatma has been ingrained with me ever since a schoolmate got into an argument with the teacher over whether it was Gandhi’s first name (the teacher was in the wrong). Just FTR, it’s not a title, per se. His only official title is Bapu (Father) of the Nation. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/57 "2009-03-26T18:31:29Z")
I must say that i don’t know what would possess someone to tell that joke during a radio interview. If he’s a comedian, and if that’s the funniest thing he’s got, it would probably be better not to advertise the fact. That said, i can’t get too worked up about this. Silly? Yes. Ignorant? Probably? But not something to get too indignant about, IMO. ETA: By the way, the perpetrator has given the classic “I’m sorry if some people were offended” non-apology apology. > [@](#): > > Speaking on Christian O’Connell’s Absolute Radio show the day after the joke was broadcast, the star said it was a “silly little play on words”. > > He added: “It seems that someone has taken offence or someone is upset by it and for that of course I’m sorry.” [Link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7965058.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/58 "2009-03-26T18:34:59Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I must say that i don’t know what would possess someone to tell that joke during a radio interview. If he’s a comedian, and if that’s the funniest thing he’s got, it would probably be better not to advertise the fact. He’s an actor, not a comedian, though he’s best known for a comedic role. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/59 "2009-03-26T18:35:45Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > Sorry, can’t help you with that one. The proper meaning of Mahatma has been ingrained with me ever since a schoolmate got into an argument with the teacher over whether it was Gandhi’s first name (the teacher was in the wrong). Thanks for taking the time to answer anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/60 "2009-03-26T18:46:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He’s an actor, not a comedian, though he’s best known for a comedic role. Even less reason to tell such a pointless joke, IMO. Anyway, another data point here: My wife takes faster offense at jokes about Indians and Pakistanis than most people. She loves the subcontinent, and before we met she took two extended trips there, totaling almost a year, during which she traveled the country and spent part of the time living with Indian families. We have stuff from India, and books about India, and photos from India all over the place. She gets very indignant at stereotyping of south Asians. When i told her about this little brouhaha, and about the joke that set it off, she laughed at the joke. And, harking back to **jjimm** ’s comment on page 1 about Paddy O’Doors, she said it reminds her of a similar joke: What’s Irish and stays out all night? Patty O’Furniture. Just a play on words. A little insensitive perhaps, but not worth dusting off the pitchforks over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852.md?page=4)