# David Jason wasn't being rascist **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852 "2009-03-26T11:31:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/61 "2009-03-26T18:51:29Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Were I to quote, it would be the entirety of your posts so far in this thread, which would be impractical and, in the end, an unreliable measurement of your blood pressure. It’s a two page thread. You really can’t work up the energy to go through my posts and back up your claim that I’ve been aggressive and outraged? If not, fine, I honestly don’t care. But stop making assertions without backup, otherwise you come across as a twat. > [@](#): > > So I will concede that you have made multiple contentious posts (more than any other poster in this thread, if I’m not mistaken) on a subject you care little about. I don’t think “concede” means what you think it does. > [@](#): > > And speakers of English, at least where I’m from, use the phrase “pick your battles” idiomatically. It doesn’t literally imply donning a suit of armor and galloping off to war, but more like (at least as I interpret it) consider the consequences, both intended and unintended, of each confrontation you make—the effect on your appearance of credibility for future, perhaps more important arguments, perhaps. I haven’t “picked a battle” or wanted a “confrontation”. I’ve just stated my opinion on a minor piece of stupid news, which I’ve never made into anything more than it is. What’s your interest in this? ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/62 "2009-03-26T19:27:12Z")
FWIW, here is a selection of newly hired Car Talk staff, and you can see a veryvery long page of similar name jokes on their [website](http://www.cartalk.com/content/about/credits/credits.html). I don’t think they have anything to do with ethnicity per se, just some fun with proper nouns. Class Attendance Monitor Julie Verley Director of Vengence Ewell Rudy Day Ponzi Scheme Operato Shirley W. Money Seasonal Adjustment Disorder Specialist Mahmoud S. Bleak Snowboarding Instructor Soren Dekeester Used Car Salesperson Meg Meehan Hoffa Werewolf Studies Specialist Harriet Knight and of course, the head of the working mother support group is Erasmus B. Dragon, always my favorite. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/63 "2009-03-26T19:43:49Z")
When I first heard that joke – and it was oh, many moons ago, too! – the uinchline (“Mahatma Coat”) was the same, but the setup was “What do you call a Hindu holy guy who moonlights as a coat checker?” At least that version makes some kind of sense, while I don’t get the one this guy’s in hot water for telling, at _all_. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/64 "2009-03-26T19:57:41Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > I don’t think “concede” means what you think it does. I think [you’re wrong](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concede) (see def. 2b). My interest? Same as yours, apparently: none whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/65 "2009-03-26T20:12:02Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I think [you’re wrong](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concede) (see def. 2b). Ok, interesting. I’ll redo your quote then: > [@](#): > > So I will [acknowledge grudgingly or hesitantly] that you have made multiple contentious posts (more than any other poster in this thread, if I’m not mistaken) on a subject you care little about. Still doesn’t seem to make much sense I’m afraid, at least not the sense I presume you meant. If you actually want to prove I’ve made contentious posts, it’s not hard. Quote me. > [@](#): > > My interest? Same as yours, apparently: none whatsoever. I’m interested. This is a man who dominated the TV during my youth and adolescence. It’s interesting to see him embarrass himself on national radio in the UK. There are other, more interesting, things going on in my life today, but I have time to spare on this. Again, what’s your interest? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/66 "2009-03-26T21:11:02Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > If you actually want to prove I’ve made contentious posts, it’s not hard. Quote me. Very well, but only since you’ve asked nicely. Your first post, in response to **Mijin** , directly repudiating his OP: > [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > Bollocks, he’s the same age as my Dad, who would never have dreamt of using such a joke at any time in his life. It’s a “don’t these funny foreigners have funny names” kind of joke which reeks of parochialism and ignorance. It’s also not very funny. He should have known better. In response to **ColdPhoenix** , rejecting his assertions, suggesting that only toddlers enjoy name-based humor, and questioning the relevance of his Indian wife’s opinion (while your own opinion _is_ relevant, we are to assume): > [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > Not if they’re over six years old, they don’t. > > But the play on words only works if you are pretty ignorant of the race in question. The joke is based on underlying racist assumptions and lack of knowledge. > > And I come from the same state as Jomo Kenyatta, and I did. How’s this relevant? In response to **Thudlow Boink** , expressing “incredulity” at his holding an opinion that opposes yours, and making “liberal” “use” of “sneer quotes”: > [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > Are you seriously telling me this is just a “silly name” joke? That we are not being invited to laugh at the funny Pakistani with his funny name? > > The most telling aspect of it is that the “joke” would not work as “well” if you replaced Pakistani with Indian. The remainder of your contribution has largely consisted (and, I suspect, will continue to consist) of your denying that you were being aggressive or contentious when posting the responses I’ve just quoted. Which is, admittedly, a matter of opinion. I’ve offered mine, I anticipate yours, and other readers are free to form theirs. You are welcome to the last word; I have a shoe of much greater importance that needs lacing, and thus will not return. Good day, sir. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/67 "2009-03-26T21:20:05Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The remainder of your contribution has largely consisted (and, I suspect, will continue to consist) of your denying that you were being aggressive or contentious when posting the responses I’ve just quoted. No, no mate, you win. I concede. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/68 "2009-03-26T21:51:10Z")
I think that anyone that attempts to characterize such an innocent pun as an example of _racism_ trivializes racism to the point of meaninglessness. Do people get up in the morning and set out to be as vociferously counter-productive as they can manage? Where’s all the outrage over “Carrie Micote”? If people regularly take offense where none is given, all they’re going to accomplish is encouraging people to equate people who raise issues about cultural sensitivity as petulant, humourless little wankers who should concentrate on getting a life. This may come back to bite them in the ass when they are trying to draw attention towards something that actually _is_ offensive. Yes, puns are a low form of humour, and silly name puns are one of the lowest forms of puns. There’s no percentage in going the mental gymnastics required to turn a silly joke like that into something to be indignant about, though. “What do you call a French man in sandals?” “I don’t know, what do you call a French man in sandals?” “Philippe Philoppe.” “How can you be so _ignorant?_ How can you impugn such a noble culture? You ought to be ashamed of yourself!” “Wait a minute, is this a joke? I like jokes.” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/69 "2009-03-26T22:01:12Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > No, no mate, you win. > > I concede. Hey… that’s not fair! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/70 "2009-03-26T22:42:08Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > If people regularly take offense where none is given, all they’re going to accomplish is encouraging people to equate people who raise issues about cultural sensitivity as petulant, humourless little wankers who should concentrate on getting a life. This may come back to bite them in the ass when they are trying to draw attention towards something that actually _is_ offensive. Again, anti-South Asian sentiment was the norm in Britain until _very_ recently. As recently as 1970, Enoch Powell, a sitting Member of Parliament and former member of the Cabinet, suggested that Britain would be racked by a race war because 10% of the population might be immigrants or the descendants of immigrants by 1985. My brother’s best friend (a white guy) married an Indian girl, and my brother married a white girl, at more or less the same time. I was totally _shocked_; I was fairly comfortable with the idea of interracial dating, but my brain couldn’t encompass the idea of interracial marriage. Not because I thought it was wrong, but because I thought my brother and his wife, and to a lesser extent his best friend and his wife would be totally ostracized by their families and by anyone else they knew. To some extent, I was right; both couples got fairly intense abuse from strangers both before and after their marriages, and this was in Richmond, one of the more cosmopolitan areas of London. The current attitude towards racism in Britain is inconceivably removed from what it was 15 years ago. So, I can totally understand why **PM** and others might feel strongly about this. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/71 "2009-03-26T23:55:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Again, anti-South Asian sentiment was the norm in Britain until _very_ recently. As recently as 1970, Enoch Powell, a sitting Member of Parliament and former member of the Cabinet, suggested that Britain would be racked by a race war because 10% of the population might be immigrants or the descendants of immigrants by 1985. In fairness (?!) to Enoch Powell, he appeared to be talking about people of African/Afro-Caribbean descent: > [@](#): > > That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. By which I believe he mean the civil rights movement. He also used the word “picaninnies” in that speech. While he may have been lumping South-Asian immigrants in with all non-white immigrants, they clearly weren’t his _primary_ concern. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/72 "2009-03-27T00:30:54Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Well, he would be a fool because it’s more blatant in that series. No-one’s going to think the n-word is still acceptible. Well, no, that’s the point. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/73 "2009-03-27T00:39:23Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > FWIW, here is a selection of newly hired Car Talk staff, and you can see a veryvery long page of similar name jokes on their [website](http://www.cartalk.com/content/about/credits/credits.html). Oh, it’s _Picov_ Andropov, and Picov is a real surname, if not a first name. But there are other unlikely names on the list: Spanish gerontologist Senor Moment, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/74 "2009-03-27T10:32:41Z")
> [@Me](#): > > Well, he would be a fool because it’s more blatant in that series. No-one’s going to think the n-word is still acceptible. > [@TWDuke](#): > > Well, no, that’s the point. Erm, OK, but my point was in contrast to yours, so I’m a bit confused that that was the point. I was saying that the language of _Fawty Towers_ is plainly not socially acceptible any more, and that the language of OFaH, while also not acceptible IMO, is not so _obviously_ unacceptible. Ergo, it’s conceivable that DJ thought it was still OK. I’ve heard people (usually older people) in daily life tell jokes like the Mahatma one. And sometimes they actually tell these jokes to people of South Asian descent, honestly thinking that the person they’re talking to will think better of them for knowing such a joke :smack:. But I’ve never seen someone use the n-word without being aware it is offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/75 "2009-03-27T13:16:48Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > In fairness (?!) to Enoch Powell, he appeared to be talking about people of African/Afro-Caribbean descent:By which I believe he mean the civil rights movement. > > He also used the word “picaninnies” in that speech. > > While he may have been lumping South-Asian immigrants in with all non-white immigrants, they clearly weren’t his _primary_ concern. I like the “in fairness (?!)” part 😃 I’ll go with you on that one… my recollection of Powell and his speeches is somewhat hazy, since he was long since out of Parliament and out of the public eye by the time I was old enough to be watching the news. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/76 "2009-03-27T14:47:36Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Who is it that gets do decide which are ‘genuine’ cases? You? Please dont try to put words into my mouth,argue against what I’ve said not erect strawmen. People who have been the victims of racial abuse whether physical or verbal KNOW whats happened to them. Unlike third persons who choose to assume that they know better what a member of an ethnic minority thinks and feels in reaction to something that the third person believes that the ethnic minority SHOULd feel. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/77 "2009-03-27T14:51:16Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Please dont try to put words into my mouth,argue against what I’ve said not erect strawmen. I refuse to argue with anyone while they’re erect. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/78 "2009-03-27T15:15:38Z")
Quick, before it is too late. Flee from the tumescent strawmen. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/79 "2009-03-27T15:30:41Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Please dont try to put words into my mouth,argue against what I’ve said not erect strawmen. > > People who have been the victims of racial abuse whether physical or verbal KNOW whats happened to them. > Unlike third persons who choose to assume that they know better what a member of an ethnic minority thinks and feels in reaction to something that the third person believes that the ethnic minority SHOULd feel. Actually, I did question what you’d said, and you’re now creating your own straw erection… ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852/80 "2009-03-27T15:35:06Z")
Well, _that_ was an unexpected turn for the thread to have taken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-jason-wasnt-being-rascist/490852.md?page=5)