Doh!
Although perhaps the term “rascist” might be appropriate for Daily Mail readers
(yes I’m aware of the irony of demonising and generalising this section of the population).
Hmm, funny name jokes do tend to offend, now I think about it. And he should’ve realised that.
But really, IMO, funny name jokes shouldn’t offend people, at least not one as tame as this.
The joke doesn’t “work” at all, but I think it wouldn’t change the quality of the joke if it were an Indian cloakroom attendant (actually, I would have got the joke quicker if it had).
It’s just indicative of general ignorance that the joke uses Pakistani.
One thing that’s only just come to mind is that Only fools and horses actually appears quite a racist show by modern sensibilities. To the extent that there are certain episodes that I’ll bet the BBC will never show again.
But, again, it’s just a matter of ignorance; I don’t doubt the intentions of the writers to realistically portray ethnic minorities in London and how they were treated within society (though obviously in a comedy way because it’s a comedy show).
I could be wrong on this though; I don’t remember every episode and perhaps there were some that seemed to show genuine racism.
Wildly misjudged? I have to say I think that is a big exaggeration. I’d say it’s more a case of a silly joke said by a famous person on a slow news day.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean you. I never got the impression you were really in much of a huff about it, just faintly irritated. It was more in general, I guess - musing.
And yes, it’s stupid and ignorant, and it’s not so much about Pakistanis being confused for Indians*, it’s just about degrading us all to “those weird brown people”. I would have hoped we had gotten somewhat past that. Us brown people have families just like anyone else, we worry about our kids, we worry about bills and work and everything. We’re not that alien.
*Not that Pakistanis and Indians have not been confused. But there is a vast amount of difference between “Are you from Pakistan?” and being from India, and “I’m going down to to the Happy Paki store” - something I have heard around here. The store owners here are Afghani, South Indian, and Pakistani - so I guess 1 out of 3 ain’t bad. :rolleyes:
“Foreigners have funny names” jokes are stupid and are based on an underlying mutual agreement between joke-teller and joke-hearer that “foreigners should be reasonable and have sensible names, like we do.”
Just like Wojohowicz, or Krakowsky, or Chiera. Goddamn those foreigners! Why my last name is a whole FIVE LETTERS LONG. I obviously can’t expect anyone to get it right; it’s just too alien.
I take all credit for “offenderatesque”. You heard it here first, folks!
“Well spoken”, not plummy. I’m offended, you big feckin’ Mick.
The “Mahatma Coat” joke is ancient, but I’ve never heard it used with the “Pakistani” nationality - only ever Indian. Which does reflect badly on Mr Jason.
What do you call a Frenchman with his feet in the water? Pierre!
I guess it would be daft if the Frenchman were substituted with a German or something.
And I’m not even going to go there about the Arab with Parkinson’s Disease and two pieces of cured pork on his head.
Hey! I’m a Yank*, you Irish git! And I try really hard to get names correct, because I get mine misspelled at me all the time. And mispronounced.
But seriously - it’s all about your frame of reference. I was just talking about this to a friend. It seems some people have a really hard time conceiving of anything outside of their fram of reference as being “normal”. I notice this way less in people who have been raised bilingual or bicultural from the start. They are just used to the fact that the way they think of things is not the only way.
Not quite. Anyone of South Asian, and maybe Arabic descent, yes. But I never saw anyone running around Twickenham yelling “Paki go home!” to Greek people.
Personally, I don’t find the joke offensive at all. It’s not funny, and very faintly smells of racism, but it’s not a big deal.
Strangely, I got about a million times more racist crap in Britain than I ever have in the States, even though most Britons* do know the difference between Indians, Pakistanis, and even Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans.
Where I grew up (Somerset), I was the only Indian kid for miles around. It wasn’t even like it was me and the local GP’s** kids- my mother was the local GP. And yet there were no real racists around. There was plenty of patronizing and/or ignorant stuff, but no genuine hatred. I had to move to Birmingham (where Indians are practically the majority) to experience real racism.
*In big communities, anyway.
**South Asians make up an even larger percentage of British physicians than they do American ones.
Very much a storm in a tea cup,what a waste of outrage.
I’d take the situation more seriously if Indians/Pakistanis were up in arms about it in large numbers but not so much when others take it upon themselves speak up for the other ethnicities on their behalf.
It tends to trivialise racism when there are some very real,very serious cases of racial abuse being perpetrated and causing the victims very real suffering.
Plus whether or not your opinion is based on the fact that you dont personally like the artist yourself is not very persuasive to the rest of us who base their own opinions on a more factual basis.
I wouldn’t go there. It’s nice to have someone to speak for you that clearly isn’t acting out of self-interest; without members of the majority working on their behalf, minorities don’t accomplish much.
Agreed, as it strongly suggests that he was really telling what he knew as a ‘Paki’ joke, and substituted ‘Pakistani’ in the mistaken belief that the word itself was the only offensive thing about it.
If anyone in this thread was actually outraged you might have the beginnings of a point. As to only the victims of racism being allowed to complain about it? Well, that’s just silly, and well dealt with by RNATB above.
Where did I say that this is what my opinion was based on?
Completely agreed, and not what I meant to suggest.* Just to clear things up I’m not Greek, despite the hilarious name.
*I do live in Greece though, and there are a minority of people in my neck of the woods who could just about pass for being from South / Central Asia. A lot of Moorish / Saracen pirates back in the day, I think.
So you dont believe that the degree of professed outrage at a poor joke,
(and lets be totally honest here,(are we saying that people of other ethnicities dont make jokes about white people in general and other nationalities?)
doesn’t trivialsie genuine cases of racial abuse?
The easiest way to lose the majoritys sympathy with oppressed minorities is to keep professing outrage,shock and horror at an incident like this so that in the end they simply stop listening, even when they are being told about a genuine case of racist abuse.
It may not sound nice but the Human race in general aren’t saints whatever their ethnicity, and recreational outrage far from helping the oppressed tends to try the patience of the average person in the street and ultimately harms the victims plight long term rather then help them.
In this particular case, I don’t think Indians or Pakistanis need anyone speaking for them. However, your post reads like criticism for people who aren’t the victims speaking up against racism in any case, which I don’t agree with.
As far as whether I believe the level of outrage, I believe the posters here (such as PM) are genuinely offended. Do I believe that some upper management type or spokesman at the BBC is genuinely offended if they make the usual “this is not representative of our views and we deplore racism” noises? Probably not.
ETA: I don’t remember what channel OFAH was on. Substitute ITV if it wasn’t on BBC.
Your aggressive, and I would say exaggerated, criticism of the “racism” inherent in this extremely infantile and unfunny joke certainly gives the impression of outrage. If that isn’t your intent, you should at least be aware of how you are coming across. And certainly anyone can complain about racism, but (particularly as someone who is not directly affected) you would be wise to pick your battles carefully, to avoid looking foolish and accomplishing exactly the opposite of what is ostensibly your goal. (On preview, what Lust4Life said.)
I’m surprised to learn that Pakistani is a race. What were they before the partitioning?
I never got the impression you were really in much of a huff about it, just faintly irritated. It was more in general, I guess - musing.