# David Mamet enters the political fray with this new book, and it's sure not what you expected! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 30, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730 "2011-05-30T02:55:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/21 "2011-05-30T21:10:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So was David Mamet an economic ignoramus then or is he an economic ignoramus now? Easy - he was then, and he is now. Which, if either, period he was correct, is unrelated to this. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/22 "2011-05-30T21:35:00Z")
Any artist who puts Rebecca Pigeon in any production with a speaking part is an idiot in my book. Same with Yoko Ono. At least Paul McCartney turned Linda’s feed all the way down. As for “it’s none of our business if CEOs of failed corporations get hundreds of millions for failing”, I can’t buy on to that. When those failings and those salaries affect what my government has to do to avoid economic collapse or causes taxes to shift from the wealthy to the less wealthy, then it kinda is my concern, as well as the rest of the country. ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/23 "2011-05-30T21:47:38Z")
Dammit, Stone, you beat me to it! ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/24 "2011-05-30T22:11:35Z")
> [@](#): > > **Years ago, you described “American Buffalo” as being about “how we excuse all sorts of great and small betrayals and ethical compromises called business.” In this book, you defend enormous payouts to C.E.O.’s working for failing corporations. You seem to have changed radically.** > I have. Here’s the question: Is it absurd for a company to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to a C.E.O. if the company is failing? The answer is that it may or may not be absurd, **but it’s none of our goddamned business.** Because as Milton Friedman said, the question is not what are the decisions but who makes the decisions. Because when the government starts deciding what’s absurd, you’re on the road to serfdom. Well, it sort of is if the government if funneling billions of dollars into your business to keep it afloat. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/25 "2011-05-30T22:23:31Z")
Merged **Bricker** ’s thread into **astro** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/26 "2011-05-30T22:52:41Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Or why not take his economic beliefs at face value and evaluate them on the basis of logic and reason as you would anyone else’s? By his own admission, Mamet believed in the liberal agenda for thirty years - and he now declares that agenda is wrong. Doesn’t that pretty conclusively demonstrate he has poor judgement on political issues? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/27 "2011-05-31T01:18:50Z")
He’s just following the script: get old, become ‘cranky old man’, develop conservative opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/28 "2011-05-31T01:28:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > By his own admission, Mamet believed in the liberal agenda for thirty years - and he now declares that agenda is wrong. Doesn’t that pretty conclusively demonstrate he has poor judgement on political issues? The fact that he changed his mind does not in and of itself indicate poor judgement, it’s the BASIS for that change that demonstrates poor/good judgement. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/29 "2011-05-31T01:47:45Z")
In the quoted passages, Mamet uses the word “belief” a lot to pejoratively refer to liberals - does he talk any about the influence of religious beliefs on self-identified conservatives’ stances on issues? Or other supposedly rational tenets of the self-described right: “Tax cuts always pay for themselves” comes to mind. I assume he accepts that Obama is no longer a foreign-born Muslim-atheist socialist-Nazi? And does he _have_ a freaking opinion on whether bailing out Wall Street and other too-big-to-fail enterprises is capitalism, socialism, liberalism, conservatism, all/none of the above? Is Wal-Mart good for America? Or protectionism? If not, I hope he enjoys his discussions about how many angels can dance on a pin. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/30 "2011-05-31T02:09:41Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > The fact that he changed his mind does not in and of itself indicate poor judgement, it’s the BASIS for that change that demonstrates poor/good judgement. How so? If Mamet was wrong about a subject for thirty years, doesn’t that indicate a lack of knowledge and/or poor judgement? And if he was wrong for thirty years, why should I trust his knowledge and judgement on this subject now? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/31 "2011-05-31T02:13:01Z")
Meh, the passage quoted by the OP is a litany of vague assertions without the slightest factual backup. No sale. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/32 "2011-05-31T06:07:10Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Was your point that Conservativeness is a solid cake of self-serving crap with a few bad arguments sprinkled on it for taste? How is “I dont have a penny=death to the oppressors” any different? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/33 "2011-05-31T06:15:36Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Meh, the passage quoted by the OP is a litany of vague assertions without the slightest factual backup. No sale. The interview kinda reads like a kid bragging about taking up smoking to piss off his parents. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/34 "2011-05-31T09:21:16Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > How is “I dont have a penny=death to the oppressors” any different? Well, that’s the point. If you’re left wing when you’re poor and become Conservative when you get rich, your previous commitment to Liberalism was completely fake. You werent against injustice, you were just there for yourself, from the very start. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/35 "2011-05-31T10:20:28Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > As for “it’s none of our business if CEOs of failed corporations get hundreds of millions for failing”, I can’t buy on to that. When those failings and those salaries affect what my government has to do to avoid economic collapse or causes taxes to shift from the wealthy to the less wealthy, then it kinda is my concern, as well as the rest of the country. I’ve heard it argued by members of the left that CEO salaries are absurd no matter how successful the company might be. Usually it’s something along the lines of “No CEO is worth thousands of times more than the poor guy slaving away on the assembly line” - the implication being that if only the CEOs made less money there’d be more for “working man” who deserves a better life. And with regard to bailouts, the fact of the matter is that as a percentage, an infinitesimal number of CEOs head companies that the government has “had” to bail out. And then when we’ve reached the point where a significant number of the populace seems to be advocating government limits on CEO salaries (as we do) and when we have the president of the United States making arrogant, soak-the-rich proclamations such as “You know, there comes a time when you’ve made enough money!” (which we have), then yes, we are indeed in danger of finding ourselves on the road to serfdom. In a free society it should be none of the government’s business how much money somebody makes, and it should be no one but the shareholders’ concern how much a CEO is paid. And if a CEO runs the company into the ground (a fairly rare occurance), then let the company go out of business. It’s mostly leftist thinking which holds that government should bail these companies out in the first place, and then it follows that once government assumes this self-appointed responsibility it also maintains the right to dictate terms as to how the company is run. And then people start thinking things like have been expressed in this thread, where all of a sudden it’s the people’s concern how much CEOs are paid because the taxpayers may be on the hook if the company fails. It’s the slippery slope writ large. And besides, it’s not like the government would have had to cough up significantly less money to prop up GM or Wall Street bankers if only the CEOs involved weren’t making so much money. The fact is that CEO salaries are a drop in the bucket when compared with the nation’s overall economy, and complaints and criticisms of them are little more than the typical liberal’s resentment of business and individual wealth made manifest. I’d wager there are few CEOs who get paid the amounts your typical successful rock star or movie actor or news anchor makes, yet no one says a word about the money these entertainment types make. This tells me it’s not so much about the money as it is about who’s getting it. And as for Mamet becoming more conservative as he’s grown older, I’d say that’s more a result of maturity than his newfound wealth. It’s a well known fact that people often become more conservative as they grow older and Mamet was successful financially long before he began to eschew liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/36 "2011-05-31T13:12:22Z")
Mamet didn’t just recently have this 180o turnaround. It happened several years ago. I chalk it up to 9/11 syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/37 "2011-05-31T13:29:00Z")
How exactly does the GOVERNMENT paying YOUR TAX DOLLARS to support people who the FREE MARKET said failed a conservative policy? Yes, Bush did it first, but most Conservatives seem to be distancing themselves from Bush. And they make fun of Obama for doing more. It sounds like the guy doesn’t know what the heck he is. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/38 "2011-05-31T14:14:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve heard it argued by members of the left that CEO salaries are absurd no matter how successful the company might be. Usually it’s something along the lines of “No CEO is worth thousands of times more than the poor guy slaving away on the assembly line” - the implication being that if only the CEOs made less money there’d be more for “working man” who deserves a better life. Not at all. I’d just like to see executive salaries subject to the same competitive, free-market pressures as everyone else’s. The CEO is hired by the board of directors, and they determine his pay (excuse me, “compensation”). But those directors are often the CEOs of other companies, who can now renegotiate with their boards to keep their pay competitive. I’ll believe it’s a free market when GE keeps their manufaturing in the U.S. and hires their executives in Bangalore. And as conservatives claims that rising corporate taxes will only be passed along to the customers, lower executive salaries can be passed along as lower costs. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/39 "2011-05-31T14:16:51Z")
I think you’re going to see more of this. From what I hear, there are a lot of ‘closet conservatives’ in Hollywood who have kept quiet for fear of harming their careers. But as more of them come forward - especially those those with artistic clout like Mamet, they clear the field for others to also ‘come out’. As for his exact beliefs, he sounds to me like an enthusiastic convert who hasn’t yet figured out how to separate the crap from the reality. It’s good that he’s reading Hayek and Friedman, it’s bad if he’s listening to Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter. Just like religous converts, when the logjam breaks you can want to just soak it all in - but then comes the laborious process of sorting it all out. You see the same thing in idealistic new lefties, who buy every left-wing trope ever uttered. Over time the become disillusioned by some of it and learn to moderate their beliefs. If you’re a powerful Hollywood player, this process is made more difficult by the sycophants and toadies who hang around and validate everything you believe without question. But Mamet will have to go a hell of a lot further before he reaches the kind of partisan idiocy displayed by your Peter Fondas or your Oliver Stones or your Sean Penns. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730/40 "2011-05-31T14:17:01Z")
It was 20 years ago, in _Oleanna_, that Mamet demonstrated that he was either intellectually dishonest or fundamentally ignorant when it came to sociopolitical issues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-mamet-enters-the-political-fray-with-this-new-book-and-its-sure-not-what-you-expected/583730.md?page=3)