# David Weber, You Cheating Bastard **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564 "2012-03-12T17:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/21 "2012-03-13T00:41:44Z")
He is a hack. A loving, silly old hack. And ordinance porn is a great description for his ouvre (hacks love this word). But the first couple of Honor Harrington books are great. The first three, actually ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/22 "2012-03-13T00:42:01Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > Maybe you \*like \* [ordinance] porn? šŸ˜ƒ Obsessive nitpick: ā€œordnanceā€. An ā€œordinanceā€ is a law or regulation, as in ā€œcity zoning ordinanceā€. ā€œOrdnanceā€ without the ā€œiā€ is weaponry. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/23 "2012-03-13T00:53:42Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Is _deau ex machina_ the same as _deus ex machina_? > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Yes, for the typing challenged. He meant to say ā€œ_(un)dead ex machina_.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/24 "2012-03-13T02:05:09Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Obsessive nitpick: ā€œordnanceā€. > > An ā€œordinanceā€ is a law or regulation, as in ā€œcity zoning ordinanceā€. ā€œOrdnanceā€ without the ā€œiā€ is weaponry. Yikesā€“appreciate the correction! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/25 "2012-03-13T02:22:51Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Really. Vlad Drakul himself. . Dracula AKA Vlad the impaler was named Vlad Tepes. Drakul was his dad. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/26 "2012-03-13T02:45:01Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Obsessive nitpick: ā€œordnanceā€. > > An ā€œordinanceā€ is a law or regulation, as in ā€œcity zoning ordinanceā€. ā€œOrdnanceā€ without the ā€œiā€ is weaponry. City Councilman Melvin Fleeberman smiled suavely, the light glinting off the gold chains draped across his pectoral muscles, visible below his partly-unbuttoned Oxford shirt and loosened tie. ā€œAccording to sub-paragraph (a), paragraph (iv), section 127, title 9 (water and sewerage) of the municipal code, no permit can be issued for the project in question without a complete environmental impact statement, including a detailed workup of the projectā€™s impact on local wetlands.ā€ ā€œI think youā€™ll find youā€™re overlooking sub-paragraph (d), paragraph (xiii), dealing with minority-owned businesses,ā€ purred attorney Anita Mann, leaning forward to display her black-lace-edged bra and the pink cleavage beneath it coyly peeking from the folds of her sternly businesslike blue pantsuit. _boom-chicka-wow-wow_ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/27 "2012-03-13T09:00:38Z")
Is it possible the WTFness is because this was originally a short story, padded out to novel length? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/28 "2012-03-13T10:43:33Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > City Councilman Melvin Fleeberman smiled suavely > ā€¦ > > _boom-chicka-wow-wow_ Thatā€™s fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/29 "2012-03-13T11:53:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Is it possible the WTFness is because this was originally a short story, padded out to novel length? That is an explanation, not an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/30 "2012-03-13T15:48:48Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > That is an explanation, not an excuse. Oh, I wasnā€™t trying to excuse anything Weber did. Iā€™m not a fan (not even the Honor Sue stuff) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/31 "2012-03-13T16:51:56Z")
Honestly, I think that Weberā€™s greatest gift is in constructing a framework that other authors can hang stories onto. In the Honorverse, for instance, the main books can rather drag (although, as of the last one, things are actually happening again), but the side books with co-authors are great. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/32 "2012-03-13T19:06:16Z")
I remember an old horror comic I read as a kid, in which the alien invaders won. They blasted most of the planet, but then, to their surprise, found some survivors walking around. The aliens picked them up in order to examine them, wondering how anyone was still alive. Turns out they were vampires, and the fires had burned away the stakes in their hearts. And they could suck alien blood. And said aliens had thoughtfully provided them with spaceships, so they could REALLY go hunting! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/33 "2012-03-13T19:26:36Z")
If those vampires had appeared in better science-fiction in the last ten pagesā€“say, The Sparrow, or Left Hand of Darkness, or Spin, or just about any other science fictionā€“I probably would have been annoyed. It is to Weberā€™s credit that he can write a book so bad that a last-minute salvation by Dracula counts as an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/34 "2012-03-13T20:53:56Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I remember an old horror comic I read as a kid, in which the alien invaders won. They blasted most of the planet, but then, to their surprise, found some survivors walking around. > > The aliens picked them up in order to examine them, wondering how anyone was still alive. Turns out they were vampires, and the fires had burned away the stakes in their hearts. > > And they could suck alien blood. And said aliens had thoughtfully provided them with spaceships, so they could REALLY go hunting! I believe thatā€™s the classic horror story And Not Quite Human. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/35 "2012-03-14T03:01:08Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > City Councilman Melvin Fleeberman smiled suavely . . . > _boom-chicka-wow-wow_ That is some funny shit right there. I rarely laugh out loud while reading the SDMB anymore, but you got me. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_With_The_Golden_Gun)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/36 "2012-03-14T04:05:58Z")
I tried to read this book too, except I didnā€™t even make it to the part with the vampires. Too much detail about the guns instead of the person firing them, along with characters I couldnā€™t have given a shit about if I tried. One redeeming feature about Out of the Dark, and the only one: None of the summaries I read mention the vampires as being ā€œsparklyā€. Thank Og for small favors. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/37 "2012-03-14T05:20:04Z")
I had originally wanted to read this book, then I read about the vampires and passed it up. I think I picked up, ā€œSpinā€ instead. Wise choice. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/38 "2012-03-14T14:41:58Z")
So I happen to like vampires, generally speaking. (of the non-sparkling variety. Hammer and Universal Dracula movies, Buffy/Angel, Forever Knight, Dark Shadows, Ravenloft, etc.) A friend of my knew this, and told me to read this book, without spoiling anything. I just finished it last week, in fact. My friend was hoping that with all the vampire lore rattling in my brain, I might see some foreshadowing of the twist that heā€™d missed, guess it ahead of time, and thus redeem the book. Nope. I was as surprised and dismayed as anyone. I understand this was a short story padded out to book length, but it seems like he forgot what the short story was about when writing the boring 200 pages leading up to it. No foreshadowing, no warning. Now, Dracula walking in daylight, thatā€™s straight from the original book, and itā€™s the Coppola film too, at least. No problem there. And the character who would be revealed as Dracula did reference a line from the movie about mid-book, and give a brief defense of the historical Dracula. But itā€™s a far cry from a random Romanian poking fun at the Anglicization/Americanization of his countryā€™s legends to finding out that he IS the legend. :rolleyes: ā€œVampires vs. Aliensā€ is a concept Iā€™d have no problem with. It would be fun, normally. But chapter after chapter of ordnance porn (thanks for the term!), indistinguishable characters, repetitive battle scenes\*, outright stupidity on the part of the aliens, jingoist humanocentric ā€œyay, weā€™re more special than the rest of the universe!ā€ undertones, technical errors (802.11 ā€œWAPā€ encryption?), and just boring writingā€¦ _followed_ by _vampire ex machina_ to save the day? BLEAGH! terrible bookā€¦ Iā€™ve never read anything by Weber before, and this is not a good advertisement. - Alien Commander: At least the roads are good. Canā€™t believe these primitives are kicking our ass so hard. Human Commander: keep out of sight, radio silence, holdā€¦ holdā€¦ wait until they are on the bridge. Alien Commander: dumdedum, letā€™s cross the bridge. No humans here. Human Commander: Fire! Alien Commander: WTF?!? Humans win. Again! Aliens blast site from orbit. (repeat ad nauseum) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564/39 "2012-03-14T17:03:56Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Is _deau ex machina_ the same as _deus ex machina_? I seem to remember from Hack Writing 101 that a _beau ex machina_ is when an attractive person of the opposite sex emerges from a machine. Seriously, that Weber book sounds dire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-weber-you-cheating-bastard/615564.md?page=1)