# Dawkins: Is he dangerous? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2010, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953 "2010-03-10T06:35:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/121 "2010-03-10T23:54:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Just consider great men of peace, how they overcame fear, they were able to reach people in a way that someone motivated by fear would have escalated the problem. No, if they had no fear they wouldn’t have worked for peace, because they wouldn’t have feared war. They wouldn’t have accomplished anything else, either; they would have just sat around drinking, screwing and otherwise indulging themselves, because they wouldn’t have feared the consequences of indiscriminate self indulgence. For themselves or anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/122 "2010-03-10T23:58:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Is he not a fellow human that if shown a little real love could turn his life around? No. He is a mentally defective individual who as far as anyone knows can’t be changed barring some sort of technique that does not yet exist. A psychopath exposed to love isn’t going to see it as anything other than an easy handle to exploit. Love isn’t magic, no matter how much you wish it to be. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/123 "2010-03-10T23:58:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They wouldn’t have accomplished anything else, either; they would have just sat around drinking, screwing and otherwise indulging themselves, because they wouldn’t have feared the consequences of indiscriminate self indulgence. For themselves or anyone else. Self indulgences is another fear that was imposed by man, a lot through religious orders, which can be overcome in Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/124 "2010-03-11T00:00:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Tetimon \ Square China ? So now you’ve no true scotsman’d away _everyone_ who didn’t actually die by being run over by a tank? Look, I get what you’re trying to do - you’re taking the exclusive case where the specific problem is that a tyrranical force is subjugating a population by fear and where if the population would just stand up and passively/violently resist their oppressors they would be able to inspire the people and bring forth a new era of peace - or at least subjucation by _new_ oppressors. And then you’re taking this tiny group of inspirational people as an example that shows that we should stand fearlessly up to cars and the like the same way - living in fear of nothing, and dying young and horribly with the glorious pride that you knew it was stupid, but by gum you did it anyway! Strangely though, even though I’m aware of your argument, I’m not feeling overly compelled by it. On preview: And self indulgence isn’t fear, no matter how conveneint it would be for you if words didn’t mean things. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/125 "2010-03-11T00:01:40Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Self indulgences is another fear that was imposed by man, a lot through religious orders, which can be overcome in Jesus. Can you please take this to another thread? It’s not relevant and getting old already. ETA: Same request to everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/126 "2010-03-11T00:01:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Self indulgences is another fear that was imposed by man, a lot through religious orders, which can be overcome in Jesus. :rolleyes: The consequences of self indulgence are imposed by the nature of reality and humanity. If I eat too much, I’ll get fat; if drink too much I’ll damage my liver; if I give away everything I own for sex and drugs today, I’ll have nothing tomorrow. Jesus won’t help you with that in the slightest, even if he wasn’t just dust. EDIT: Um, you were actually trying to equate self indulgence and fear? That’s just bizarre; will you claim that bears are screwdrivers next? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/127 "2010-03-11T00:03:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No. He is a mentally defective individual who as far as anyone knows can’t be changed barring some sort of technique that does not yet exist. A psychopath exposed to love isn’t going to see it as anything other than an easy handle to exploit. Love isn’t magic, no matter how much you wish it to be. If that person could be turned around, due to being shown Love, that person can make a difference in other lives, even the people left behind from his homicides can take comfort and be able to move on much easier. This person may not be able to undo what he did, but he can help heal the damage he caused, which is a great benefit and can set people free of the pain he inflicted on them. I’m not saying that inflicting pain on someone then removing it and expecting to be praised should be expected, but turning around so that they person can see closure is very helpful to society and can be used to get rid of anger that a person harbors. Less anger in this world is a good thing ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/128 "2010-03-11T00:04:17Z")
**kanicbird** , if you want to share your theories on religion and the human spirit, start a new thread. I recognize that some discussion of the nature of religion is unavoidable here, but this stuff is not relevant to the topic at hand. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/129 "2010-03-11T00:05:00Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Can you please take this to another thread? It’s not relevant and getting old already. > > ETA: Same request to everybody else. I didn’t bring this up, just responding, please make the request of that person. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/130 "2010-03-11T00:09:38Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I didn’t bring this up, just responding Your responses are not wanted in this thread. Unless you can stay on topic, take your comments elsewhere. And anyone who has questions about whatever you are saying should also post them in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/131 "2010-03-11T00:13:53Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > So now you’ve no true scotsman’d away _everyone_ who didn’t actually die by being run over by a tank? > > Look, I get what you’re trying to do - you’re taking the exclusive case where the specific problem is that a tyrranical force is subjugating a population by fear and where if the population would just stand up and passively/violently resist their oppressors they would be able to inspire the people and bring forth a new era of peace - or at least subjucation by _new_ oppressors. And then you’re taking this tiny group of inspirational people as an example that shows that we should stand fearlessly up to cars and the like the same way - living in fear of nothing, and dying young and horribly with the glorious pride that you knew it was stupid, but by gum you did it anyway! This was a extreme example, but that can be used in every form of conflict, from small organizations to tyrannical governments, but that takes overcoming fear to make a positive difference which from these posts Dawkins does not seem to posses. This IMHO makes him ‘dangerous’. He appears to use fear and other negativity to divide. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/132 "2010-03-11T00:21:41Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Am I the only one who finds it funny that there are people in these forums claiming that teaching children creationism is comparable to teaching children evolution when the tagline of these forums is “Fighting ignorance since 1973”? > > Though, of course, it’s taking longer than we thought. > > 😛 Well, he did evolve six-hundred and sixty-six children into newts, which makes him pretty dang dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/133 "2010-03-11T00:36:23Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > This was a extreme example, but that can be used in every form of conflict, from small organizations to tyrannical governments, but that takes overcoming fear to make a positive difference which from these posts Dawkins does not seem to posses. This IMHO makes him ‘dangerous’. He appears to use fear and other negativity to divide. For your information I am not going to perpetuate this hijack in this thread any further. Apologies to all for what I’ve done of it to this point. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/134 "2010-03-11T00:50:03Z")
Edit: Decided not to take part in kanicbird’s thread hijacking. ---
**Author:** ![nilum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ed8c4c/32.png) [@nilum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nilum)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/135 "2010-03-11T00:52:14Z")
So I’ve been a little preoccupied, but I wanted comment on the guy that dying young in a heroic act is stupid… I call BS. There is nothing stupid in cases where people have sacrificed themselves to save the life of others. I’ve heard of stories where brave soldiers have jumped on grenades so that their nearby comrades wouldn’t be maimed in the explosion. Ending your life early so that others might go on is a very complex issue… What would dawkins do? Think dawkins would sacrifice himself so that 2 others might live. Or jump in front of a bullet to save a child. Does religion dictate emotional decisions? Would an atheist be just as likely? To be honest I think most atheists are cowards ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/136 "2010-03-11T00:54:33Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > So I’ve been a little preoccupied, but I wanted comment on the guy that dying young in a heroic act is stupid… I call BS. > > There is nothing stupid in cases where people have sacrificed themselves to save the life of others. I’ve heard of stories where brave soldiers have jumped on grenades so that their nearby comrades wouldn’t be maimed in the explosion. > > Ending your life early so that others might go on is a very complex issue… > > What would dawkins do? > > Think dawkins would sacrifice himself so that 2 others might live. Or jump in front of a bullet to save a child. > > Does religion dictate emotional decisions? Would an atheist be just as likely? > > To be honest I think most atheists are cowards I assume that you’re basing your statements about Dawkins’s behavior on citable cases where he has refrained to take bullets for people. Let’s suppose for a moment that, unlike ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE EVERYWHERE who will all instantly sacrifice themselves to save others, that Dawkins is indeed a “coward”. The question is though, does this make him dangerous? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/137 "2010-03-11T01:06:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I assume that you’re basing your statements about Dawkins’s behavior on citable cases where he has refrained to take bullets for people. > > Let’s suppose for a moment that, unlike ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE EVERYWHERE who will all instantly sacrifice themselves to save others, that Dawkins is indeed a “coward”. The question is though, does this make him dangerous? Forget Dawkins, I’ve not even seen Jesus sacrifice himself to save others. And Jesus was out there kicking people out of temples and was killed for blasphemy. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/138 "2010-03-11T01:11:42Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > What would dawkins do? It seems to me like you are casting aspersions upon Dawkin’s character because you can’t effectively attack his message. I have no idea whether Dawkin’s would sacrifice himself to save others. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn’t. I have no way of knowing for sure and neither do you. But even if he is a coward, that has nothing to do with the validity of his message. I greatly respect Dawkins, but he’s not the final word on my personal morality. In fact, no single source serves that function for me. I don’t ask myself “What would Dawkins do?” in the same way that some Christian’s ask “What Would Jesus Do?” He’s not a messiah figure to me. He’s just a cool guy who’s written some good books. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/139 "2010-03-11T01:19:25Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > To be honest I think most atheists are cowards Sacrificing one’s life is not necesarily a virtue. The 9/11 hijackers also sacrificed their lives for what they considered a greater cause. What if nobody wanted to sacrifice their life anymore? All wars would cease. I don’t regard that as a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953/140 "2010-03-11T01:19:31Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > There is nothing stupid in cases where people have sacrificed themselves to save the life of others. I’ve heard of stories where brave soldiers have jumped on grenades so that their nearby comrades wouldn’t be maimed in the explosion. And you know for a fact all these people were churchgoers? > [@](#): > > Ending your life early so that others might go on is a very complex issue… > > What would dawkins do? Dawkins’ character as nothing to do with the merits of his arguments about religion or anything else. He may be very charitable and live a very ethical life, or he might be a tax-cheating philanderer. I have no idea and it has no bearing on this. > [@](#): > > Does religion dictate emotional decisions? Would an atheist be just as likely? I suppose belief in an afterlife might encourage bodily self-sacrifice, although that has a positive side and a negative side (suicide bombers). But all things considered the personality of the individual is the important thing here, not their views on religion. > [@](#): > > To be honest I think most atheists are cowards To be honest, I think you have personal issues with Dawkins and atheists that stem from your own issues, whatever they may be, and not with their behavior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dawkins-is-he-dangerous/531953.md?page=8)