# Daycare - are you trying to kill my daughter? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706 "2009-02-13T17:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/41 "2009-02-13T21:32:36Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I recall reading, aghastly, of someone telling of an incident where a first grade teacher was attempting to insist that a child try the peanut butter cookies that a classmate’s mother had baked, even though the child was doing its best to explain he/she was allergic to peanuts, several years back. Now that is inexcusable by anyone’s standards. I’ve helped raise a kid, and one of my personal “agendas” was to make absolutely sure she knew a few certain things. 1. Just because someone is older doesn’t make them right. Some people are just stupid. (That is how I put it too). 2. You always have the right to question something, and “because I said so” is bullshit. 3. Nobody can tell you what to do with your body, except YOU. That includes to food items. 4. Anyone who has a problem with 1 through 3, can see me or the parents and we will “explain” to them. So far it has worked very well for ummmm 14 years. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/42 "2009-02-13T21:45:11Z")
At our son’s nursery school, lists of known allergies and allergy-risk foods such as nuts are circulated. No such foods are allowed. Seems simple and sensible enough. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/43 "2009-02-13T21:47:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It is also possible that deaths from food allergies used to be more common (I don’t know that, I’m just guessing) so now more allergics are surviving into adulthood. > **[Latest news & breaking headlines](https://www.thetimes.com/)** > > The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment. Nut allergies have increased. \<\\> [http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869095,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869095,00.html) \<\\> ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/44 "2009-02-13T21:57:28Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > We already know the public school policies for nuts, and are satisfied with them, so these worries mostly go away when she enters kindergarten in the fall. Hell, one time her oldest sister got in trouble for bringing acorns to kindergarten for show & tell. They came home triple wrapped in plastic bags with a big note that said “ACORNS ARE NUTS”. I know this is a serious issue, but this story made me giggle. I hope your daughter wasn’t too upset by the experience. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/45 "2009-02-13T22:11:06Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Nuts are absolutely not safe for kids that young; that they leave them out like that shows a disregard for safety. Heck, the reason plush dolls (of any kind, materials and size) are marked “over 3yo” is the risk of choking on glass or plastic eyes. Even if the daycare takes kids 4+, there’s a much higher risk of a kid that size choking on nuts than for an adult. The daycare to which The Nephew went aged 2 had a specific policy forbidding nuts, MnM-style chocolates, chewing gum and hard candy on center grounds. I don’t know if it ever happened, but they told parents that if they tried to go pick up their kid while chewing gum they’d be told to go drop it at the trashcan outside (they wanted the kids to understand very clearly that You Can Not Have That Here). ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/46 "2009-02-13T23:00:21Z")
Yarrr, It’s driving me to a daycare without nuts! ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/47 "2009-02-13T23:45:18Z")
Well, whatever anyone may think about nut allergies or any allergies or whatever, if the nursery says they have a nut-free room, they should have a nut-free room. If nothing else, it’s a breach of contract or false advertising (presuming the daycare’s policies count as advertising). Your daughter didn’t have a problem with the nuts that were in the room, then? Or did she not enter the room? Of course, they should have still followed the policy they said they’d adhere to, but, from your POV with a child who has allergies, it might be helpful to know that she’s not one of those who does have strong reactions to nuts just being near her. > [@choie](#): > > \*\* Actually I myself used to be sensitive to, of all things, the combination of chocolate and peanuts. Peanuts/nuts were fine, and chocolate (thank goodness!) was fine. Put 'em together and I’d just get a rash and a fever. Fortunately it went away by my late teens, so the joys of Reeses weren’t denied me forever. Oh, my daughter’s like that! She doesn’t have any other allergies or intolerances, fortunately (I have them all :() but she has this one, presenting differently: if she eats nutella, her poo comes out looking like nutella, and just keeps on coming out for a couple of days with barely a break. Her underwear just has to be thrown away because those stains do not come out. It’s not going to kill her, and doesn’t even hurt, but it’s not something you want to deal with at home, let alone at school. Our theory is that it’s some intolerance to whatever is used alongside nuts and chocolate when the two are put together - some additive, probably. (We haven’t been to the doctor about it because it’s a) so obvious when it happens that there’s no doubt and b) not that big a deal). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/48 "2009-02-13T23:53:51Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > If she eats nutella, her poo comes out looking like nutella, and just keeps on coming out for a couple of days with barely a break. She’s like a Nutella breeder reactor! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/49 "2009-02-14T00:04:36Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > …from your POV with a child who has allergies, it might be helpful to know that she’s not one of those who does have strong reactions to nuts just being near her. Not really. Allergies (that is, anaphylactic ones that cause your respiratory tract to swell up, not sensitivities that give you a tummy ache) are often cumulative. The minor reaction of today might be the major reaction of tomorrow, and there’s no way to know when your wheezy kid who can walk it off will become the kid whose airway closes from an airborne exposure. Generally speaking, though, reactions get worse with each additional exposure to the allergen. In fact, if you needed one more reason to be pissed at the daycare, their actions may have further sensitized your daughter, making her next attack more likely to be deadly, not merely inconvenient. Even though she didn’t have a visible reaction, there’s that many more peanut proteins in her system tonight triggering the production of new antibodies to make her immune system freak out. I’d suggest checking the dates on your epi-pens and review their use with your daughter, just to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/50 "2009-02-14T00:14:44Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > Yeah, me too. Much more upset than I would be if my kid died because the daycare didn’t want to hurt your feelings. :rolleyes: Holy melodramatic asshole on a high horse, Batman! ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/51 "2009-02-14T00:19:44Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Not really. Allergies (that is, anaphylactic ones that cause your respiratory tract to swell up, not sensitivities that give you a tummy ache) are often cumulative. The minor reaction of today might be the major reaction of tomorrow, and there’s no way to know when your wheezy kid who can walk it off will become the kid whose airway closes from an airborne exposure. Generally speaking, though, reactions get worse with each additional exposure to the allergen. I know, but it would still be comforting to know that she’s not that sensitive _yet_. I’m not advocating further exposure. A couple of weeks ago I spent half a thread pointing out that food allergies are different to some other allergies (like dog hair, for example), and that nut allergies are different again. (I wasn’t the only one pointing that out, of course, but there were doubters). ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/52 "2009-02-14T01:40:22Z")
Between fifty and one hundred Americans die each year from allergic reaction to peanuts. Source: [ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/story?id=1358275) It’s not always an ingestion of the peanuts themselves that causes problems. One case involved a young woman who died from kissing her boyfriend who had eaten a cookie or a sandwich earlier that had peanuts. Older children understand that they can’t eat things that are not from home. But day care aged children don’t. They are just learned to share (and take away!) **Mosier** , which one of those fifty deaths is melodramatic to you? All you have to do is Google “peanut allergy” and the truth is there. Teacher training in how to handle allergic reactions to food is not unusual now. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/53 "2009-02-14T01:55:21Z")
That’s pretty reprehensible, and it’s definitely worth contacting the state authorities over it. > [@Zoe](#): > > Between fifty and one hundred Americans die each year from allergic reaction to peanuts. > > Source: [ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/story?id=1358275) > It’s not always an ingestion of the peanuts themselves that causes problems. One case involved a young woman who died from kissing her boyfriend who had eaten a cookie or a sandwich earlier that had peanuts. > > Older children understand that they can’t eat things that are not from home. But day care aged children don’t. They are just learned to share (and take away!) > > **Mosier** , which one of those fifty deaths is melodramatic to you? All you have to do is Google “peanut allergy” and the truth is there. Teacher training in how to handle allergic reactions to food is not unusual now. Nitpick: in the kiss thing, it was [not](http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060303/peanut_allergy_060303/20060303?hub=TopStories) a peanut allergy that killed her. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/54 "2009-02-14T02:13:58Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Holy melodramatic asshole on a high horse, Batman! Well, would you have preferred that they simply toss them in the trash? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/55 "2009-02-14T02:29:20Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Nitpick: in the kiss thing, it was [not](http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060303/peanut_allergy_060303/20060303?hub=TopStories) a peanut allergy that killed her. Was there ever a follow-up? What did kill her? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/56 "2009-02-14T02:42:59Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Was there ever a follow-up? What did kill her? Spending several hours at a party that was filled with smoke, and, according to the coroner, probably smoking pot herself. The official cause of death was an asthma attack. (Nine hours had transpired between when the boyfriend ate the peanut butter and when they kissed.) Here’s one cite: [Client Challenge](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/05/12/international/i090214D76.DTL) This one mentions the pot smoking: [http://www.calgaryallergy.ca/News.htm#teenpeanutkiss](http://www.calgaryallergy.ca/News.htm#teenpeanutkiss) ---
**Author:** ![Aithele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Aithele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aithele)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/57 "2009-02-14T03:08:45Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Is there some kind of licensing board where you can lodge a complaint? I only skimmed the thread so I don’t know if this has been answered or not. Yes, there is a licensing body that regulates childcare facilities. This is one of the things they should know about. **muldoonthief** , it took a bit of googling but I found the licensing agency for your state. [http://www.eec.state.ma.us/](http://www.eec.state.ma.us/) Please do report this. Bad daycares stay in business because people don’t report these things. You can also file a complaint with your local police station. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/58 "2009-02-14T03:08:49Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This is ESPECIALLY true when you’re talking about 4 year olds. Kids like this don’t get a tummy ache from peanuts, they don’t get a bit wheezy from peanuts, they can DIE from peanuts. It’s a pretty terminal mistake. :rolleyes: An apt user-name. I readily admit that the probability of me getting flamed for this post approaches one, but people are inordinately scared of peanut allergies, especially for children. The way the media reports it, you might guess that anthropomorphic four-foot tall peanuts stalk your children on the way to school with bats in-hand just waiting to take little Johnny out, but I’m more sanguine. The widespread availability of blood and skin-prick testing for peanut allergies tends to overcall peanut allergies, and those laboratory-based “diagnosis” of peanut allergies may or may not correlate with any clinical symptoms on actual exposure to peanuts. In terms of overall childhood mortality, peanut allergies ranks up there with lightning strikes and mountain lion attacks. In fact, I’m willing to mail off $5 to the first poster that can provide citations for a series of _four_ children under the age of 12 (at which point we might be able to say that the onus to keep children safe from peanuts begins to shift from institutions like daycares and schools to individuals) in the past 15 years who have died from peanut allergies. An attempted census of peanut allergy deaths in the UK: [http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/86/4/236](http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/86/4/236) “The UK under 16 population is 13 million. Over the past 10 years, eight children died (incidence of 0.006 deaths per 100 000 children 0–15 years per year). Milk caused four of the deaths. **No child under 13 died from peanut allergy**. Two children died despite receiving early epinephrine before admission to hospital; one child with a mild food allergic reaction died from epinephrine overdose. Over the past two years, there were six near fatal reactions (none caused by peanut) and 49 severe ones (10 caused by peanut), yielding incidences of 0.02 and 0.19 per 100 000 children 0–15 years per year respectively.” Data from the United States is surprisingly difficult to come by. The most frequently cited article which hazards to take a census of child food anaphylaxis deaths is this one: [http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0091-6749/PIIS009167490114683X.pdf](http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0091-6749/PIIS009167490114683X.pdf) In the above study, 32 food anaphylaxis deaths are identified from 1994-1999 from the national food anaphylaxis registry maintained by the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology identified _32_. The article contains tables of all of the identified cases, and none of those cases fit the parameters of my wager. They identify three children under 12 who died of food allergies, and none of them were due to peanuts (milk, fish, and brazil nuts were the culprits). In Australia, let’s say the risk is comparable to that of dingo attacks. [http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/jpch/abstract.00002208-200307000-00011.htm;jsessionid=JWtJpZmQvzvlbQkYJRhRrh1KY17Lgc4SCJVhvWHBSpLc156grWyg!-2118404334!181195629!8091!-1](http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/jpch/abstract.00002208-200307000-00011.htm;jsessionid=JWtJpZmQvzvlbQkYJRhRrh1KY17Lgc4SCJVhvWHBSpLc156grWyg!-2118404334!181195629!8091!-1) “However, the risk of a fatal reaction to food, particularly in preschool children, is remote (in Australia, an estimated one fatality in 30 years in the under 5-year-old population and two deaths in 10 years in the entire child population).” The abstract doesn’t specify the food responsible. It may or may not have been peanuts. And one fairly certain dingo-related fatality: > **[Death of Azaria Chamberlain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azaria_Chamberlain_disappearance)** > > Azaria Chantel Loren Chamberlain (11 June 1980, Mount Isa – 17 August 1980, Uluru / Ayers Rock) was a nine-week-old Australian baby girl who was killed by a dingo on the night of 17 August 1980 during a family camping trip to Uluru (Ayers Rock) in the Northern Territory. Her body was never found. Her parents, Lindy and Michael Chamberlain, reported that she had been taken from their tent by a dingo. However, Lindy was tried for murder and spent more than three years in prison, and Michael rece... ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/59 "2009-02-14T03:46:34Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > [http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869095,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869095,00.html) > > \<\\> This is why I roll my baby in dirt twice a day. Seriously though, the whole nut allergy thing sounds like a bitch. I hope my kid doesn’t develop it. ETA: > [@](#): > > In terms of overall childhood mortality, peanut allergies ranks up there with lightning strikes and mountain lion attacks. . . . Oh, never mind then. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/60 "2009-02-14T04:52:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > .. are you sure they’ll even know where the Epi-Pen is when it’s needed? Much less remember how to use it properly… I teach preschool part-time, and we’ve always had at least a handful of kids with various allergies, including peanut and nut allergies. We are not allowed, by state law, to keep Epi-Pens in the classroom, but they are easily accessible in a closet in the director’s office. They’re each in a large Ziploc bag with the child’s name on it in large letters. We have training at the beginning of each year with Epi-Pen trainers. We have one teacher who is a former nurse, and I’m also an EMT, so I think we’re pretty well covered in how to use them. There’s one woman, however; who each year asks, “So should we run all the way down to the office and come back with the Epi-Pen?” I point out every freakin’ year that it would be better to scoop up the kid and go to the office. It never seems to sink in with her. :rolleyes: (I work full-time as an EMT, so I’m pretty much the go-to girl now for all injuries and suspected illnesses. I’ve seen more bloody noses and scraped knees and bumped heads than I can count.) As for having a nut-free room - that’s just not possible at my school, as it’s a small private preschool and not a daycare. We are always aware of which kids have which allergies (dairy seems to be more prevalent than nuts lately), and we tell the parents in the beginning of the year that there is an allergic child in their child’s class, and that all treats and snacks must be nut-free or dairy-free or whatever. We also have a mid-day lunchtime program, and if there’s a kid with nut allergies enrolled in it, we make sure the parents know about it, and ask them to label their child’s lunch if it contains nuts. In one case, there was a little boy who was severely allergic, and we did not allow any nuts in lunches that year. Usually just asking them to label lunchboxes is enough. We make sure that the nut-kids eat at one end of the room, and the nut-allergic kid and anyone else who has brought a peanut-free lunch sit together at the other end of the room. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706.md?page=4)