# Daycare - are you trying to kill my daughter? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706 "2009-02-13T17:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/61 "2009-02-14T08:24:12Z")
To make matters worse, [food allergies may be overdiagnosed](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/health/03well.html?ref=health) due to reliance on a test which is not proving reliable. This means that there are increasing numbers of little kids whose parents think they might die if exposed to peanuts or gluten or other common foods, who are not actually allergic to the suspect food. I have known many people absolutely sure that the allergies can’t be all that bad, to the point they refuse to comply with restriction while assuring the parents they will. Some even brag about successes, how they feed kids something mommy assures them is deadly and the kid is fine. I have also heard them attribute reactions (non-deadly in the cases I have witnessed) to the child detecting the food, not to an actual allergy. According to the article, actual food allergies did not correspond to the test results about half the time and the test results was not a good predictor of the severity of the reaction, so it makes the claims I have personally heard more credible than I originally thought. What a recipe for tragedy. I can well imagine skeptics emboldened by their successes, trying it again and again until they find a kid with a severe reaction. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/62 "2009-02-14T12:21:32Z")
Children need to feel Loved and unconditionally accepted. If they can get this at all in daycare is questionable. Then to add to this that they are excluded from this reduced level of care diminishes them even further. Perhaps you can do something for your daughter to show she is unconditionally Loved regardless of her peanut allergy. Spend very special time with her, perhaps have a special party for her at daycare. It’s Love that your daughter needs, not anger towards the daycare. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/63 "2009-02-14T13:06:49Z")
I think her daughter needs a daycare that keeps nuts away from her, not just a “special party”. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/64 "2009-02-14T13:24:21Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Children need to feel Loved and unconditionally accepted. If they can get this at all in daycare is questionable. Then to add to this that they are excluded from this reduced level of care diminishes them even further. Perhaps you can do something for your daughter to show she is unconditionally Loved regardless of her peanut allergy. Spend very special time with her, perhaps have a special party for her at daycare. > > It’s Love that your daughter needs, not anger towards the daycare. Well that, and not being poisoned by the daycare. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/65 "2009-02-14T13:31:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Children need to feel Loved and unconditionally accepted. If they can get this at all in daycare is questionable. Then to add to this that they are excluded from this reduced level of care diminishes them even further. \ > > It’s Love that your daughter needs, not anger towards the daycare. Loved? not just loved but Loved? Yes, and they should live in a magic land where they can sing and dance and fart rainbows! She’s in daycare not a Chinese sweatshop; I’m sure she’ll feel loved even if she’s not basking in her parents’ sacred love every second of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/66 "2009-02-14T14:05:52Z")
> [@lee](#): > > I have known many people absolutely sure that the allergies can’t be all that bad, to the point they refuse to comply with restriction while assuring the parents they will. Some even brag about successes, how they feed kids something mommy assures them is deadly and the kid is fine. I have also heard them attribute reactions (non-deadly in the cases I have witnessed) to the child detecting the food, not to an actual allergy. I can believe it. People love to play “Gotcha!” with your food - as in “Ha! Gotcha! That meal you just ate contains that ingredient you think you’re allergic to, and nothing happened!”. I’m just fortunate that, for me, it only means a night of digestive upset rather than death. Combine people’s conviction that you’re mistaken about your food allergy/sensitivity with widespread scepticism about nut allergies in general and that’s sure to result in certain folk giving peanuts to peanut-allergic children. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/67 "2009-02-14T14:27:20Z")
> [@Risha](#): > > Huh, I thought it had been more widely publized at this point. Nut allergies (including peanuts, even though it’s a legume) are somewhat unusual in that many people, like **sinjin** ’s daughter, don’t need to taste or even touch them in order to have a reaction. \*\*Every year or so I see a news item about some poor kid who died from touching someone who ate a peanut butter sandwich recently, or sat too close to a cake being baked. \*\* I am reading your post #18 in this thread. I have 49 more posts to go yet, and I’m looking forward to reading the other posters’ reactions to the bolded part above. At the moment, I’m not inclined to believe that what you wrote above is completely true. And I’m sure you can cite it and all … but I’ve researched this topic before, and the newpaper articles commonly cited don’t attempt to distinguish coincidence, correlation, and causality. But let me keep reading through the thread, starting at post #19, and see what I can learn. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/68 "2009-02-14T15:03:14Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Children need to feel Loved and unconditionally accepted. If they can get this at all in daycare is questionable. Then to add to this that they are excluded from this reduced level of care diminishes them even further. Perhaps you can do something for your daughter to show she is unconditionally Loved regardless of her peanut allergy. Spend very special time with her, perhaps have a special party for her at daycare. > > It’s Love that your daughter needs, not anger towards the daycare. Now you are just trolling you lowlife piece of crap. Go away you troglodyte. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/69 "2009-02-14T15:14:30Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > One case involved a young woman who died from kissing her boyfriend who had eaten a cookie or a sandwich earlier that had peanuts. I was waiting for this case to make an appearance. [This one was debunked a few months after it took place](http://www.allerg.qc.ca/peanutallergy.htm#kissing): > [@](#): > > - **Kiss may have killed Quebec teen** (posted Nov 28th, 2006). > > This has been reported throughout the world, but unfortunately without further info regarding the victim. Following a CBC report (only in French) it seems her boy-friend had eaten a peaut butter sandwich many hours before and he was not aware of his girl-friend’s peanut allregy. She was also asthmatic and at 3 am, she thought she was having an asthma attack and began using her puffers without success. The Epipen was discovered only after Urgence-Santé got to the victim’s residence. Was the peanut allergy-kiss responsible for the anaphylactic reaction? (posted Nov 30th, 2005) > > -The latest on this story is that the autopsy revealed that it was in fact a tragic death related to a reaction to peanut. See video (only found in french) (posted Dec 1st, 2005) _[Keep reading - bordelond]_ > > -On March 3d, 2006, Dr Michel Miron, coroner of the district of Chicoutimi, speaking to the media, concluded that 'Christina Desfornes did not die due to an anaphylactic reaction after kissing her boyfriend after he had eaten peanut butter. The story made headlines round the world, and Mr. Miron said he wants people to know that a peanut-butter sandwich did not cause the death of Christina Desforges last November. Mr. Miron would not reveal the cause of death, because he has not submitted his final report to the provincial coroner’s office and is also waiting on some final test results. > > -On May 11th, 2006, Dr Miron held a press conference where he concluded that **Christina Desforges did not die as a result of an allergic reaction to peanut, but from cerebral anoxia due to an acute asthmatic attack.** (see complete text, only in French unfortunately for now) (posted May 11th, 2006) > > PS. Unfortunately, as happens usually following corrections or retractions, the initial report back in Nov 2005, which made headlines worldwide, for many will stand and be wrongfuly treated as a death due to peanut allergy. EDIT: I should have kept reading – \*\*Ninja Chick \*\*presented the debunking only a few posts later than \*\*Zoe’s \*\*post. Good on the SDMB! ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/70 "2009-02-14T15:19:11Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Spending several hours at a party that was filled with smoke, and, according to the coroner, probably smoking pot herself. The official cause of death was an asthma attack. (Nine hours had transpired between when the boyfriend ate the peanut butter and when they kissed.) > > Here’s one cite: [Client Challenge](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/05/12/international/i090214D76.DTL) > This one mentions the pot smoking: [http://www.calgaryallergy.ca/News.htm#teenpeanutkiss](http://www.calgaryallergy.ca/News.htm#teenpeanutkiss) Thanks for these cites. The realities of nut allergies are bad enough. Bad, exaggerated info are an especial danger because it makes a lot of people doubt the things that concusively known and borne out experimentally. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/71 "2009-02-14T15:28:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Just because you personally haven’t heard this, doesn’t mean that it’s not common knowledge. Maybe you just like arguing for the sake of arguing, but _lots_ of people haven’t heard of the extent of peanut allergies, and it’s \*not \*common knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/72 "2009-02-14T15:52:23Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I am reading your post #18 in this thread. I have 49 more posts to go yet, and I’m looking forward to reading the other posters’ reactions to the bolded part above. > > At the moment, I’m not inclined to believe that what you wrote above is completely true. And I’m sure you can cite it and all … but I’ve researched this topic before, and the newpaper articles commonly cited don’t attempt to distinguish coincidence, correlation, and causality. > > But let me keep reading through the thread, starting at post #19, and see what I can learn. Who put the stick up your ass? I specifically said that I read news articles about it happening. You, yourself, say above that they exist. Maybe, according to **threemae** ’s links above, those news reports were wrong. (I will note that **sinjin** ’s experience sounded potentially deadly to me, but I am not a doctor.) It happens everyday. But don’t lose your shit because I haven’t researched the truth behind every news item that pops up on my feed, especially when it comes up frequently. I guess I have to go find primary sources for that plane landing in the Hudson now. God knows what the newspapers made up about that. I bet the plane doesn’t even exist. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/73 "2009-02-14T16:06:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Children need to feel Loved and unconditionally accepted. If they can get this at all in daycare is questionable. Off-topic, judgmental, and baseless. Go fuck yourself, troll. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/74 "2009-02-14T16:15:43Z")
And we are supposed to derive from these stories that the fact that well-trained emergency medical practitioners, with luck and skill on their side, were able to prevent people in critical condition from anaphylactic shock, triggered by a food allergy, from actually dying, justifies being slipshod in keeping children away from allergens that may be deadly to them? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/75 "2009-02-14T16:18:48Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > In terms of overall childhood mortality, peanut allergies ranks up there with lightning strikes and mountain lion attacks. Well, just so we’re clear, I expect my child’s daycare to protect her from mountain lions and to install lightening rods if they’re in a lightning strike prone location, too. Especially if they have a sign up on the door saying, “Mountain Lion Free Zone!” Generally speaking, I agree with you that there’s some crazy fear going on that’s probably misplaced, or at least overblown. But that’s not what this thread is about - this thread is about a daycare promising something very specific and important to a parent and then not adhering to their own policies. ---
**Author:** ![Sri\_Theo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Sri\_Theo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sri_Theo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/76 "2009-02-14T17:10:57Z")
TBH maybe you’re slightly too worried about this, I’m 21 now but as a child I used to be deathly allergic to peanuts and highly allergic to other sorts of nuts, eggs and even had reaction to some fruit and vegetables (but only when they were raw, never did figure that out). As long as they’re not shelling peanuts in the room she’ll be fine, nuts in cookies, baked goods and M&M’s ect. are no danger unless she eats them directly- At four she’ll understand enough that the day care teacher just keeping a close eye on her should be enough. Although as they did promise a nut free room you do have the right to be indignant about that. Oh and on a positive note I have grown out of most of my allergies 🙂 Only peanuts still give me some trouble, but nowhere near as bad. Makes going out to eat much more fun 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/77 "2009-02-14T18:35:34Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Not really. Allergies (that is, anaphylactic ones that cause your respiratory tract to swell up, not sensitivities that give you a tummy ache) are often cumulative. The minor reaction of today might be the major reaction of tomorrow, and there’s no way to know when your wheezy kid who can walk it off will become the kid whose airway closes from an airborne exposure. Generally speaking, though, reactions get worse with each additional exposure to the allergen. > > In fact, if you needed one more reason to be pissed at the daycare, their actions may have further sensitized your daughter, making her next attack more likely to be deadly, not merely inconvenient. Even though she didn’t have a visible reaction, there’s that many more peanut proteins in her system tonight triggering the production of new antibodies to make her immune system freak out. I’d suggest checking the dates on your epi-pens and review their use with your daughter, just to be safe. The EpiPens are definitely up to date. I’m not sure what you mean by “review their use with your daughter” though. She knows what they’re for, but we haven’t explicitly told her that it’s a big honking needle that we’re going to slam into the meaty part of her thigh. I’d have to check with my wife, but I believe our allergist has said we don’t have to avoid having her in the same location as nuts, as long as they’re not being cooked with (and obviously we’d have to personally make sure she doesn’t get any). The problem we’re concerned with is that given 15+ kids and 3 supervisors, there’s no way to make sure someone doesn’t hand her food that she can’t have. As I said, part of what we’re doing is training her to never accept food that a responsible adult hasn’t confirmed as safe, but we can’t **depend** on that until she’s much older. > [@Aithele](#): > > I only skimmed the thread so I don’t know if this has been answered or not. Yes, there is a licensing body that regulates childcare facilities. This is one of the things they should know about. > > **muldoonthief** , it took a bit of googling but I found the licensing agency for your state. [http://www.eec.state.ma.us/](http://www.eec.state.ma.us/) Please do report this. Bad daycares stay in business because people don’t report these things. You can also file a complaint with your local police station. Yeah, we’re going to report them to the EEC next week. I’m not going to bother with the police station - if no crime has been committed, they won’t care. > [@threemae](#): > > I readily admit that the probability of me getting flamed for this post approaches one, but people are inordinately scared of peanut allergies, especially for children. The way the media reports it, you might guess that anthropomorphic four-foot tall peanuts stalk your children on the way to school with bats in-hand just waiting to take little Johnny out, but I’m more sanguine. > > The widespread availability of blood and skin-prick testing for peanut allergies tends to overcall peanut allergies, and those laboratory-based “diagnosis” of peanut allergies may or may not correlate with any clinical symptoms on actual exposure to peanuts. Just to head you off at the pass, my daughter had peanut butter when she was almost 2. Turned red, swollen face, wheezy breathing. So I think we’re quite appropriately scared of peanuts. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Children need to feel Loved and unconditionally accepted. If they can get this at all in daycare is questionable. Then to add to this that they are excluded from this reduced level of care diminishes them even further. Perhaps you can do something for your daughter to show she is unconditionally Loved regardless of her peanut allergy. Spend very special time with her, perhaps have a special party for her at daycare. > > It’s Love that your daughter needs, not anger towards the daycare. Fuck you sideways with a rusty bucksaw. Not being an drooling idiot like yourself, I’m perfectly capable of loving (and even Loving) my daughter **and** being angry at the daycare, so take your shit elsewhere, scumbag. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/78 "2009-02-14T19:03:33Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Children need to feel Loved and unconditionally accepted. If they can get this at all in daycare is questionable. Then to add to this that they are excluded from this reduced level of care diminishes them even further. Perhaps you can do something for your daughter to show she is unconditionally Loved regardless of her peanut allergy. Spend very special time with her, perhaps have a special party for her at daycare. > > It’s Love that your daughter needs, not anger towards the daycare. Oh **kanicbird** , you crack me right up. I always perk up with glee when I see that you’ve written something because I know you’re always good for a hoot. But you’ve outdone yourself this time. That’s just hilarious! You should change your name to komicbird! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/79 "2009-02-14T19:50:10Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The EpiPens are definitely up to date. I’m not sure what you mean by “review their use with your daughter” though. She knows what they’re for, but we haven’t explicitly told her that it’s a big honking needle that we’re going to slam into the meaty part of her thigh. What I mean is it may be time to do just that. While she should absolutely not be expected to take full responsibility for her food allergies, it would be very nice if she knew what was required and how to tell someone else about it. Four is not too young to teach her a silly song to help her remember, just in case the person around her next time she’s exposed is NOT fully trained in the use of an epi-pen. What if it’s at a friend’s house? Or there’s a substitute in day care? Or there’s no one but kids around? For example (I’m sure you can come up with a better one together: To the tune of, of course, “Found a Peanut” “Found a peanut, ate a peanut and now I cannot breathe! Stick the epi-pen into my thigh, and not up my nose, please!” (I don’t know what else is involved in epi-pen administration, but more verses can be added as needed.) Sounds silly, right? But if it’s silly it’s not too scary, yet it could still save her life. My daughter just turned four last week, and she’s very good about asking every person who gives her something to eat if it has gluten in it. If they say, “what’s that”? She can tell them it comes from wheat and makes her tummy hurt and she needs special crackers and bread. And I’ve watched her say, “No thank you, I’ll have a corn chip instead” when presented with foods that she can’t verify are gluten free. Four year olds need protection, but they’re not helpless babies, either. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706/80 "2009-02-14T20:40:25Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Oh **kanicbird** , you crack me right up. I always perk up with glee when I see that you’ve written something because I know you’re always good for a hoot. But you’ve outdone yourself this time. That’s just hilarious! > > You should change your name to komicbird! Me, I just find it amazing someone manged to threadshit with LOVE, of all things! What a tool. Muldoonthief, sounds to me like you’re doing a good job with your daughter. Keep up the good work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daycare-are-you-trying-to-kill-my-daughter/485706.md?page=5)