# Daylight saving time - again. Let's go to back to "God's time" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 11, 2021, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707 "2021-03-11T12:12:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/182 "2022-03-17T15:37:48Z")
> [@Honolulu\_Lulu](#): > > Personally, I think the US should copy Europe: Last Sunday in March to last Sunday in October. Again, YMMV. It was moved somewhat recently to first Sunday in November to accommodate Halloween trick or treaters. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/183 "2022-03-17T15:41:14Z")
I recently heard an argument from amature astronomers for permanant standard time, and that is that, in the summer, on DST, it doesn’t get to dark enough until nearly 11pm, giving them less time before they would like to go to bed. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/184 "2022-03-17T16:25:15Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > For most of these areas, they are still waking up and driving to work in the dark with standard time. And now they’ll have to for longer swaths of the year. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/185 "2022-03-17T16:48:00Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > are you thinking businesses and schools change their hours year round? Actually, a lot of them do. It’s common around here for businesses to have winter and summer hours. It’s also common for businesses that have different amounts of work at different times of year – seed companies, for instance – to have longer hours of operation when they’re busy and shorter hours when they’re less busy. > [@Honolulu\_Lulu](#): > > I keep a list of eleven clocks/watches that have to be changed. Computer & cell phones do it for you. Normally, it would take me about twenty minutes, but I also adjust clocks that have drifted during the six month period. To me, it’s worth it. Changing the clocks is trivial, even if you’ve got a lot of clocks that don’t change themselves. It’s not about changing the clocks; clocks are in no way disturbed by being changed. It’s about changing sleep/wake cycles, both in humans and in all the associated non-human species who live with us. There are some humans who don’t notice such changes much. There are a lot of humans who are seriously affected. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/186 "2022-03-17T17:38:50Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It’s common around here for businesses to have winter and summer hours. It’s also common for businesses that have different amounts of work at different times of year – seed companies, for instance – to have longer hours of operation when they’re busy and shorter hours when they’re less busy. Restaurants in my tourist town on the beach also have different summer hours. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/187 "2022-03-17T17:50:08Z")
I suppose I am an anomaly in that the clock change itself doesn’t rattle me for more than a day or two. And heck, this last Sunday I was traveling from an non-DST jurisdiction to one that uses one time zone off, so I had to do no adapting (though the three housebound clocks needed changing). Frankly part of the issue in the USA is (a) as mentioned, the arbitrary rule that the workday/schoolday for everyone, everywhere, has to happen exactly at _ **these** _ X:00-Y:00 clock hours regardless of conditions on the ground, because someone in New York or Boston or Chicago c. 1900 said so and (b) that the existing time zones in the Continental US, designed for the convenience of railroad and telegraph communications between the business hubs of the late 1800s, today in in many places wind up with too much of the population centers too offset from the actual longitude-from-GMT reference mark. Ideally the best solution would be to reevaluate and redraw the CONUS time zone boundaries to get something that works out least badly for a maximum amount of people and places across the seasons, and then fix them there with year-round Standard Time. I see from the recently passed bill that it rather takes the clumsy but easier route of just redesignating all the existing “Standard” time zones by a +1 hour datum (e.g. EST becomes defined as GMT -4 as opposed to GMT -5 ). But, it wisely allows that those locations that _already_ exclude DST under current law (that would be Arizona, plus the various jurisdictions in the tropics – Hawaii, PR, USVI, Guam, American Samoa, the Marianas – where it’s kind of pointless) would get to choose which “new” zone to adhere to i.e. whether or not to make that one final change. In the case of PR/VI for instance they’re by longitude close to the west edge of the UTC-minus-4 reference (what the US calls “Atlantic Time”) and do not switch, but during DST _the East Coast does sync up with them_, so to those islands it would be most efficient if this law passes to just stand pat at minus 4, NOT move forward to minus 3, and _nothing_ changes in their lives next November. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/188 "2022-03-17T17:51:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I recently heard an argument from amature astronomers for permanant standard time, and that is that, in the summer, on DST, it doesn’t get to dark enough until nearly 11pm, giving them less time before they would like to go to bed. lol I bet there were also complaints that the observatory dome was not heated so they were chilly, and that they did not have a good espresso machine. [there is a reason why the official astronomical day used to begin at noon…] ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/189 "2022-03-17T17:51:56Z")
To an astronomer, DST stands for “Darkness Squandering Time.” I’ve heard drive-in theaters hate it too, for exactly the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/190 "2022-03-17T18:00:12Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > [there is a reason why the official astronomical day used to begin at noon…] I’d say we can just make it so the _administrators_ at the funding outfit, are expected to hold _their_ business meetings at 9pm… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/191 "2022-03-17T18:13:56Z")
A cautionary tale?: > **[Permanent daylight saving time? America tried it before ... and it didn't go...](https://www.aol.com/news/permanent-daylight-saving-time-america-053051807.html)** > > About five decades ago, the U.S. tried to make daylight saving time year-round – and public opinion of the change quickly deteriorated. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/192 "2022-03-18T00:42:54Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A cautionary tale?: > > [Permanent daylight saving time? America tried it before ... and it didn't go well. [Video]](https://www.aol.com/news/permanent-daylight-saving-time-america-053051807.html) Absolutely. They should have put us on permanent standard time. In the long run, it doesn’t matter whether we are on permanent daylight savings time, or permanent standard time. Schools and businesses will adjust opening times as desired. But in the short run, getting past the first batch of dark winter mornings is required to make it stick. By unanimous consent — no historically astute senators. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/193 "2022-03-20T21:15:09Z")
Here is my obligatory comment about Hawaii never having to change its time. The only way DST affects us is having to remember how many hours ahead you guys are. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/194 "2022-03-21T11:40:20Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The only way DST affects us is having to remember how many hours ahead you guys are. YMMV, but that sounds just as annoying as (if not more than) a small adjustment to the local time. I suppose it depends on how much one deals with institutions in other time zones. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/195 "2022-03-21T11:53:38Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > a small adjustment to the local time. If it’s such a small adjustment, then why do auto accident rates go up for a week or so after it’s done? > **[The Number of Fatal Car Accidents Spikes After Daylight Saving Time](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/daylight-saving-can-make-driving-less-safe)** > > The annual time switch increases sleep deprivation, resulting in jet lag-like symptoms that leave people feeling drowsy behind the wheel of a car for several days after we “spring forward.” ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/196 "2022-03-21T11:56:17Z")
I assume it is somewhere in the thread already, but just put the whole country on UTC. I schedule a meeting for 13:30, everyone knows what time it is going to happen. My hours in the office are 12:00 - 21:00, everyone knows when I can be reached. ---
**Author:** ![SoToasty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sotoasty/32/2803_2.png) [@SoToasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoToasty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/197 "2022-03-21T13:13:53Z")
I do like this Idea. Businesses could just decide their own starting times. And businesses like the Stock Exchange would have consistent hours across the country, heck the world for that matter. No need for anyone to try and compute times. I do see issues for national businesses with local times. IE if Cracker Barrel wants to open at 8 AM then you have 4 different start times (based on the current time zones) for the continental US. But with Google and Bing and Duck Duck go like they are, if I do a search, and I usually do now for Businesses, then the local published hours should come up and I don’t have to worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/198 "2022-03-21T14:53:19Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I assume it is somewhere in the thread already, but just put the whole country on UTC. This is ridiculous. That means that the date would change in California at, if I calculated correctly, what is currently 5pm. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/199 "2022-03-21T14:58:20Z")
Is there a similar drop after we fall back? Just curious – it wouldn’t affect any sort of opinion I have on the issue, I’m just curious if the extra sleep helps on the flip side or not and it’s a wash in the end. (I suspect they wouldn’t cancel each other out, but may be close.) ETA: Actually, wait, it says virtually no change in November. So extra sleep doesn’t help, but an hour less of sleep seems to contribute to about 28 extra fatal accidents a year. But that’s just one aspect of time change. You have to look at long-term effects as well. Will keeping us on DST year round increase accident rates in the morning (especially in Northern cities) because of increased darkness during normal commuting hours? There’s a number of factors to consider when moving around the clock, not just how many accidents there are in the week after a time change (though that is an important data point.) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/200 "2022-03-21T15:03:24Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That means that the date would change in California at, if I calculated correctly, what is currently 5pm. My initial take is “So?”. But I can see where that is a paradigm shift, so you could use one of the existing US time zones (the AT&T network time was the Central time zone), but UTC has the advantage of being non-US centric for international businesses. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707/201 "2022-03-21T15:42:53Z")
People plan things by date. That is so ingrained that it would be effectively impossible to change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-again-lets-go-to-back-to-gods-time/937707.md?page=11)