# Daylight Saving Time (in USA) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000 "2017-03-12T14:51:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/21 "2017-03-12T17:07:32Z")
And you lot call yourself Dopers… The Master has already [addressed this](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1079/whats-the-purpose-of-daylight-saving-time) in a column many years ago (in a question apparently sent in by **Ravenman** ). The change in DST that added March and October was to done to [conserve energy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_States#Second_extension_.282005.E2.80.932009.29), just like Cecil said. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/22 "2017-03-12T17:18:57Z")
> **[The History of Daylight Saving Time](https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/history.html)** > > Daylight Saving Time (DST) is used to save energy and make better use of daylight. It was first used in 1914 in Regina, Canada. This is the history of daylight saving time , there was talk of ending it in my state Massauchettes which I was happy to hear. I am not sure if this is doing to happen after all. I wonder how much energy we’re really saving doing this. ---
**Author:** ![KittenKat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kittenkat/32/306_2.png) [@KittenKat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KittenKat)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/23 "2017-03-12T17:27:35Z")
> [@sear](#): > > Bonus Q: > > Have you noticed? > Several radio stations broadcast a tone to alert the listener when the top of the hour arrives. > But they’re often more than 10 seconds apart from one another. > > wtf ?! I listen to a radio station that does this, and a listener wrote in asking when during the four note signal did the new hour start. One of their on air personalities said that on the last note is when the hour changes. So that’s what I use to reset the clock in my car, as it tends to gain time. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/24 "2017-03-12T17:32:54Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > What do farmers have to do with it? You think farmers are anxiously looking at their watch, wishing they could go out and start milking the cows, but it’s not 8:00 yet? Cows get baffled by the time change and lose milk production. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/25 "2017-03-12T17:59:56Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > It’s occurs too soon. The only way it wouldn’t be too soon is if this nonsense never occurred at all. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > When “standard time” occupies only a third of the year, I think it ceases to be “standard.” It’s “standard” in the sense of “being the actual time, in relation to the position of the sun”. Arbitrary hops back and forth are just bureaucratic meddling. > [@Ravenman](#): > > This whole idea of messing with our clocks twice a year is supremely stupid. Yep. And besides all the stuff you have to fiddle with manually twice a year, the fact that some devices change time automatically has the potential to be even worse. It may be helpful for now, but it would be an absolute nightmare if the awesome majesty of the law ever changes the rules yet again and the devices are not – or are no longer – updateable. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/26 "2017-03-12T18:10:13Z")
> [@Lancia](#): > > And you lot call yourself Dopers… The Master has already [addressed this](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1079/whats-the-purpose-of-daylight-saving-time) in a column many years ago (in a question apparently sent in by **Ravenman** ). The change in DST that added March and October was to done to [conserve energy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_States#Second_extension_.282005.E2.80.932009.29), just like Cecil said. From your cite, when Indiana adopted DST in 2006, energy consumption _increased_. > [@](#): > > An October 2008 study conducted by the University of California at Santa Barbara for the National Bureau of Economic Research found that the 2006 DST adoption in Indiana increased energy consumption in Indiana by an average of 1%. Although energy consumption for lighting dropped as a result of the DST adoption, consumption for heating and cooling increased by 2% to 4%. The cost to the average Indiana household of the DST adoption was determined to be $3.29 per year, for an aggregate cost of $1.7 million to $5.5 million per year. Also the same reason Arizona won an exemption from DST way back in 1967. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/27 "2017-03-12T18:11:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s “standard” in the sense of “being the actual time, in relation to the position of the sun”. Arbitrary hops back and forth are just bureaucratic meddling. Even Standard Time isn’t “the actual time in relation to the position of the sun” for the vast majority of people, due to the continuous nature of the earth’s rotation and the discrete nature of time zones. For most places, true local noon (i.e., the time when sun shadows point due astronomical north) does not coincide with 12:00 PM Standard Time. Having any type of official time standard at all involves “bureaucratic meddling”. There are valid reasons to object to DST, but the erroneous notion that the system of Standard Time time zones somehow represents astronomically “actual” or “true” time, as opposed to an equally “meddlesome” bureaucratically imposed arbitrary scheme, is not among them. ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/28 "2017-03-12T18:27:51Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > From your cite, when Indiana adopted DST in 2006, energy consumption _increased_. Very true (well, I’m going to assume the numbers in that study are true because right now I’m too lazy to follow the footnote). But that doesn’t negate the fact that proposed energy savings was the impetus behind extending DST. It had nothing to do with farmers or trains or any other such rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/29 "2017-03-12T18:32:02Z")
**Kimstu** : You’re taking me rather too literally. Of course the discrete nature of hourly time zones is going to create deviations from “true noon”, presumably increasing as you approach the boundaries. This is unavoidable if one is going to standardize the time system, and if the railroads hadn’t done the airlines or broadcasters or just modern life would have. My point is that this is qualitatively different from some bureaucrat decreeing that you have to mess with your clock twice a year so that kids have more daylight time to play outside in the summer. If choosing between standard and daylight time, I’d prefer to go with standard for the reasons I mentioned, but that’s incidental – either one would be far superior than changing your mind twice a year. It’s the messing about that I object to. I’ve even read that it’s suspected to be a contributor to higher accident rates immediately after the change. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/30 "2017-03-12T18:33:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This whole idea of messing with our clocks twice a year is supremely stupid. Let’s just change our clocks once more, by half an hour, and never touch them again. Yes. Or just keep them where they are now and never change them. I lived in Indiana before they decided to switch, and before so many items switched automatically. Coming from Chicago, it was heaven to not be running around the house messing with clocks and watches twice a year. I have a mantel clock that requires me to move the minute hand past the three, then the hour hand somewhere, then something else, or the chimes get screwed up. I know it’s only twice a year, but it’s a pain. I love the clock, but I would also love never messing with it again. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/31 "2017-03-12T18:39:14Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I’ve worked in a radio station, that did not go off the air at night. We were told that by law, there must always be someone in the control room. “We were told” is not a cite. Do you have the actual law? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/32 "2017-03-12T19:16:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > “We were told” is not a cite. Do you have the actual law? [From here.](https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/unattended-operation) > [@](#): > > In 1995, the Commission adopted the Report and Order in MM Docket 94-130, 10 FCC Rcd 11479 (1995) [PDF | Word] which permitted radio and TV broadcast stations to be operated without a person standing by to monitor the transmitter’s operation (“unattended operation”). This action was taken to permit licensed broadcast stations to take advantage of advances in station monitoring equipment and the inherent reliability and stability of today’s transmission equipment. However, there is this. > [@](#): > > Q5: Response Time: How long do I have to respond and correct a transmitter malfunction? > > A: The personnel designated by the licensee to control the transmitter must have the capability to turn the transmitter off at all times, or include an alternate method of taking control of the transmitter which can terminate the station’s operation within 3 minutes. See 73.1350(b)(2). An example of a system of this type, independent of automatic equipment, would be equipment to turn the transmitter off when the studio-to-transmitter (STL) link is turned off by personnel at the studio. This short response time is intended to cover those rare instances where the malfunctioning equipment may be posing a threat to public safety, e.g., by causing interference to a land mobile based emergency radio system. > > **In general, the licensee or permittee must correct any malfunction which could cause interference or turn the transmitter off within 3 hours of the malfunction. Some malfunctions, however, must be corrected within 3 minutes.** Examples of situations requiring termination within 3 minutes are operations posing a threat to life or property, or that is likely to significantly disrupt operations of other stations (such as spurious emissions or operations substantially at variance from the authorized radiation pattern), unless the power is sufficiently reduced in that period to eliminate any excess radiation. See Section 73.62 for AM stations and Section 73.1350 for AM, FM, and TV stations, as revised in the Report and Order in MB Docket 03-151, FCC 07-97, released May 25, 2007. Someone’s gotta be awake somewhere. **boffking** will need to confirm when he worked at the station. Or it could be the station didn’t yet have the needed equipment. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/33 "2017-03-12T19:28:10Z")
> [@Pai325](#): > > I lived in Indiana before they decided to switch, and before so many items switched automatically. Coming from Chicago, it was heaven to not be running around the house messing with clocks and watches twice a year. Might have been heaven for you but it was a royal bitch if you worked at a TV station. Half the year you’d be on NYC time and the other half you’d be on Chicago time. Since at that time all of the network programming and satellite news feeds originated from New York it meant that half the year you ran network prime time live and the other half you had to record it all and run it an hour later. I worked in news where the problem was the satellite news feeds. They would be off by an hour half the year and it was a pain to do different calculations half the year. I think for a while when I was young the Indiana stations got around this simply by airing prime time from 8 - 11 PM in the winter and then from 7 - 10 PM in the summer and then the late local news would follow at either 10 or 11 PM. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/34 "2017-03-12T19:35:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > “We were told” is not a cite. Do you have the actual law? He is right. It used to be that way. In 1995 Congress de-regulated the hell out of broadcasting and made it very, very good for corporations and not very good for consumers. One of the many bones they threw to the station owners was no longer mandating them to have actual humans present at all times. I tried to find a cite for the old regulations but it was tough because the 1995 regs kept coming up on Google. (I’m sure someone else would find it in a heartbeat and make me look petty and evil :o) ---
**Author:** ![sear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sear)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/35 "2017-03-12T19:36:44Z")
I1 #33 Isn’t Indiana one of the very few States that don’t dance the DST jig? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/36 "2017-03-12T19:42:51Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > He is right. No. I’m pretty sure **boffking** isn’t old enough to have worked in a radio station in 1995. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/37 "2017-03-12T19:53:14Z")
> [@sear](#): > > I1 #33 > > Isn’t Indiana one of the very few States that don’t dance the DST jig? While all of Indiana officially observes Daylight Saving Time, 12 of the 92 counties are on Central Time, with the rest still on Eastern Time. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/38 "2017-03-12T19:56:14Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No. I’m pretty sure **boffking** isn’t old enough to have worked in a radio station in 1995. It is reasonable to believe that someone who had worked at the station for a long time told him in good faith that the control panel must be constantly manned, especially because such a person may have been so instructed when they were trained under the law at that time. It isn’t like college radio stations employ top communications attorneys to conduct strict training sessions for someone’s 2 hour block of bluegrass at 2am on Tuesday mornings every other week. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/39 "2017-03-12T20:01:56Z")
Why bother with these time zones and confusing hours and minutes? In the future, everyone will use [Swatch Internet Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time). The time is now @875 everywhere in the world. Easy peasy. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000/40 "2017-03-12T20:06:22Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I hate DST with a passion. China has the right idea. Not only do they not have DST, they don’t have time zones either. Except that the system is so unwieldy that pockets of the country use unofficial local times, providing endless opportunity for confusion and misunderstandings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daylight-saving-time-in-usa/782000.md?page=3)