# Dayton, Ohio or Birmingham, Alabama? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560 "2005-09-20T17:30:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![PigBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@PigBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigBoy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/81 "2005-09-22T01:54:04Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Dayton has two malls: **The Dayton Mall** , which is located in Miami County (about 10 miles south of downtown)… I think you mean Miami _Township_, what with Miami County being in the opposite direction. 🙂 Regarding shopping in Dayton: construction has begun on one of these upscale “lifestlye center” things in Beavercreek (at the Kettering border), to be completed next year I think. If anyone’s familiar with Easton in Columbus, which seems to be fairly well known, it’s the same thing. This will make two malls within the city of Beavercreek and, conveniently, one every seven miles or so along I-675. Whatever. As **the raindog** said, downtown has suffered quite a lot, but there have been some improvements… another one is Riverscape, which is a very nice little riverfront park. The most interesting thing about Riverscape to me (as an urban geography-minded person) is that I have seen it to actually attract families downtown so their kids can play in the fountains. These people probably never stray a block from the park, but it’s a start. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be much on the horizon to draw an everyday crowd of people downtown to do things like shop. Only making things worse would be the demolition of the historic [Arcade](http://www.preservationdayton.com/Pages/arcade.asp), which, although it hasn’t held any retail (or anything at all) for some time now, is just begging to be put to good use. One more thing. To add to **Crafter\_Man** ’s mention of the Wright Brothers, Dayton calls itself “The Birthplace of Aviation” (you may have seen the phrase on Ohio’s license plates) not only because it was the home of the Wright Brothers, but also because Dayton is where they did most of their work on powered flight. They did everything but test the plane in Dayton, and after the famous first flight, they did do the test flights of their later, and–face it–much more useful, planes in Dayton. Huffman Prairie, where they did a lot of flying, is now within Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. There is a pretty nice new museum about the Wrights (as well as poet Paul Laurence Dunbar) next to one of their original bicycle shops in the near west side neighborhood where they lived and worked. ---
**Author:** ![waits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df788c/32.png) [@waits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waits)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/82 "2005-09-22T02:03:54Z")
Equal. As previously noted, Randy Newman has written a song called “Dayton, Ohio, 1903” and another song called “Birmingham.” That’s my only connection to both. ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/83 "2005-09-22T02:08:57Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Dayton has two malls: **The Dayton Mall** , which is located in Miami County (about 10 miles south of downtown), and **The Mall at Fairfield Commons** , which is located in the Beavercreek/Fairborn area. > > The Dayton Mall has been there for quite a while; I think it was built in 1966. It has undergone many renovations, and the immediate vicinity is chock full of stores. > > The Mall at Fairfield Commons is pretty new; I think it was built in the early 1990’s. Is the Salem Mall officially deceased? ---
**Author:** ![Rock-n-Rolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/22d042/32.png) [@Rock-n-Rolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rock-n-Rolga)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/84 "2005-09-22T03:25:13Z")
I grew up in Southside Birmingham and still have a recurring dream that I’m visiting there and am able to spend just one more night in my childhood house on Lakeview Crescent. I always wake from that dream on the verge of tears. I do miss that city a lot. Never been to Ohio myself and have no strong opinions either way of Dayton or any other burg there. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/85 "2005-09-22T03:35:33Z")
> [@PigBoy](#): > > I think you mean Miami _Township_, what with Miami County being in the opposite direction. 🙂 :smack: > [@PigBoy](#): > > Regarding shopping in Dayton: construction has begun on one of these upscale “lifestlye center” things in Beavercreek (at the Kettering border), to be completed next year I think. If anyone’s familiar with Easton in Columbus, which seems to be fairly well known, it’s the same thing. This will make two malls within the city of Beavercreek and, conveniently, one every seven miles or so along I-675. Whatever… Yea. It will be called the [Greene Town Center](http://www.steiner.com/portfolio/thegreene/greenetowncenter.cfm). We lived across from the 72-acre lot for 8 years. When we lived there it was a nice woods; I used to go hiking there in the winter all the time, and spotted deer tracks on every hike. I find it ironic (and sad) that the they chopped down 72 acres of trees, and will call the shopping plaza **The Greene**. :rolleyes: Not only that, but Greene County already has a mall! (The Mall at Fairfield Commons.) Why would Greene County want two malls competing with each other? 😕 > [@PigBoy](#): > > As **the raindog** said, downtown has suffered quite a lot, but there have been some improvements… another one is Riverscape, which is a very nice little riverfront park. The most interesting thing about Riverscape to me (as an urban geography-minded person) is that I have seen it to actually attract families downtown so their kids can play in the fountains. These people probably never stray a block from the park, but it’s a start. Yea, it’s O.K. But I must admit I get mad every time I see those [400-ft. fountains](http://www.riverscape.org/html/body_the_fountain.html) spewing water into the river. Want to know why? The original plan was to pump _river_ water into the air. But _after_ they installed the fountains they discovered the river water was dirty (!), and would require very expensive filters in order to operate. So how did they get around this problem? Simple! They hooked the fountains to our aquifer! Which means the fountains are spewing high-quality, drinkable, artesian well water into the river at 2,500 gallons of water per minute!!! :mad: :smack: :mad: :smack: > [@E-Diddy](#): > > Is the Salem Mall officially deceased? Yea, I think it was demolished just this year. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/86 "2005-09-22T04:14:26Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Is the Salem Mall officially deceased? > > Yea, I think it was demolished just this year. Nope, it’s still there AFAIK. I’m in that area regularly to go to Home Depot etc. It’s empty for the most part, although I think the Sears store is still open, and they may have a couple stores on the exterior open. ---
**Author:** ![PigBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@PigBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigBoy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/87 "2005-09-22T04:28:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Yea, it’s O.K. But I must admit I get mad every time I see those [400-ft. fountains](http://www.riverscape.org/html/body_the_fountain.html) spewing water into the river. Want to know why? The original plan was to pump _river_ water into the air. But _after_ they installed the fountains they discovered the river water was dirty (!), and would require very expensive filters in order to operate. So how did they get around this problem? Simple! They hooked the fountains to our aquifer! Which means the fountains are spewing high-quality, drinkable, artesian well water into the river at 2,500 gallons of water per minute!!! :mad: :smack: :mad: :smack: I have the same feelings! ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/88 "2005-09-22T04:56:54Z")
Dayton. I passed through the city (or at least its environs) a couple of years ago when I went to Ohio for my parents’ 45th anniversary. I was born in Cleveland, and spent most of my life in that city’s metropolitan area. Mom and Dad still live in the house where I grew up. For part of her childhood, Mom lived in the Dayton area (Fairfield, which later merged with Osborn to become Fairborn). I’ve only been to Alabama once, and spent the night in Montgomery. I don’t think the journey took us through Birmingham. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/89 "2005-09-22T08:09:58Z")
I’ve got no connection (that I know of) with Birmingham. One of the dearest friends I’ve ever known is a native of Dayton and lives there now. ---
**Author:** ![Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/839c29/32.png) [@Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phedre_no_Delaunay)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/90 "2005-09-22T14:27:26Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > This _has_ been an issue in years past. There have been (not making it up) several movements to put pants or a kilt on those “buns of iron”. Yeah, but that movement will never get anywhere. Vulcan has a great ass! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/91 "2005-09-22T15:46:32Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > I was down at the big newer mall that’s south of Dayton. Hm. The big mall south of Dayton is the Dayton Mall and I believe it’s the oldest mall in the area. > [@](#): > > I am willing to concede there may be some neat little boutiques tucked away in downtown Dayton, I didn’t get a chance to explore that area much. There is nothing in downtown Dayton. Absolutely nothing. (And when I say none, I mean there is a certain amount.) It’s quite sad, really. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/92 "2005-09-22T16:13:38Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Hm. The big mall south of Dayton is the Dayton Mall and I believe it’s the oldest mall in the area. I guess that was it. It was an area near the highway with lots of hotels and other businesses. I don’t know why it seemed like a newer mall tho’. Most of my memories of Daytona are endless strip malls (we have strip malls here, I just know how to avoid them) and horrible highway construction. (My hotel wound up being up north where all that highway intersection construction is going on. It’s a sad little area.) I did get lost a little in downtown Dayton and wound up on the west side of the highway in a kinda sketchy neighborhood. Seems like there’s potential to redo downtown into a fun, hip dowtown but it’s not quite there yet. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/93 "2005-09-22T16:27:28Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > I did get lost a little in downtown Dayton and wound up on the west side of the highway in a kinda sketchy neighborhood. Oddly enough, Dayton is one of the most heavily segregated cities in the country. The West Side is where the poor black community is concentrated. It’s also the location for a large amount of drug trafficking. > [@](#): > > Seems like there’s potential to redo downtown into a fun, hip dowtown but it’s not quite there yet. Seeing as downtown is nearly deserted, there’s a lot of potential. As a previous poster mentioned, there have been some efforts to bring something back, but so far that hasn’t happened. If I could get a job in my field in Dayton, I would definitely try to live downtown. (Well, there or Yellow Springs.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/94 "2005-09-23T05:18:16Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Oddly enough, Dayton is one of the most heavily segregated cities in the country. The West Side is where the poor black community is concentrated. It’s also the location for a large amount of drug trafficking. Birmingham is also heavily segregated. The gerrymandering of its public school districts are a masterpiece; it’s almost pre 1960 demographics again with all white and all black schools. (A few of the poorest whites go to the inner city schools and a few of the wealthier blacks go to the upper scale suburb schools, but we’re talking low single digit percentage numbers in both cases.) ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560/95 "2005-09-23T05:31:38Z")
I’m from Ohio, but Bob Pollard is from Dayton - I really like Guided By Voices. I’ve been through Birmingham four times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dayton-ohio-or-birmingham-alabama/322560.md?page=4)