# DC Comics Event - Identity Crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692 "2004-04-29T16:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/1 "2004-04-29T16:26:36Z")
Coming out in June. Details [here](http://www.bradmeltzer.com/other/identity.html). Any thoughts? As for the murder victim… my money’s on Snapper Carr. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/2 "2004-04-29T21:21:36Z")
As the 24[sup]th[/sup] bajillionith series that “will have lasting ramifications for it’s entire universe!”, with the last one actually fulfilling the promise being Zero Hour (and all that did was manage to fuck shit up, and on a side note I am fully convinced that Dan Jurgens is illiterate, because _no one_ can write that bad that consistently, so his stuff must just be the works of the proverbial million monkeys before they’ve managed to hit Shakespeare), I give it a hearty and enthusiastic, ehhh… I’ll wait for the reviews. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/3 "2004-04-30T03:11:37Z")
> [@](#): > > In fact, the publisher is touting Identity Crisis as the most important event since Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ 1986 seminal classic, Watchmen. The hell? I like Brad Meltzer, so I’m semi-looking forward to it even though I know in my heart of hearts that it’ll probably suck. I do like that he’s using Elongated Man, though. I never liked Plastic Man in the League. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/4 "2004-04-30T07:45:18Z")
The most recent DC mini-series that had any lasting impact anywhere near the scope of ‘WATCHMEN’ was probably the Elseworlds-inspired “KINGDOM COME.” Like KC, I’m suspicious that this series, too, was inspired by lesser talents who’ve picked the meat of an earlier Alan Moore proposal, the oft-lamented ‘TWILIGHT’ project. As I recall, that series had a murder mystery at its heart, too – the death of Billy Batson by a rogue Martian Manhunter, who assumes Captain Marvel’s identity. Snapper Carr’s not a bad guess, but it’s not an earthshaking one either. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/5 "2004-04-30T12:44:38Z")
Well, doign some research, I see that other possible suggested deaths for this series, according to speculation, are Firestorm (since Ronnie Raymond is being replaced shortly as the Nuclear Man) and the Martian Manhunter, which would be just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/6 "2004-04-30T13:01:36Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Any thoughts? I have also heard the speculation that Ronnie Raymond will be wiped out. If they kill Martian Manhunter, I’ll be extremely disappointed. I can’t say I’m looking forward to this. ‘Shake-up’ stories rarely do it for me, and I can’t see how this one will be different. [hijack]But it just about HAS to be better than some of DC’s past offerings. There have been times in the past where the DC books and/or annuals were almost unreadable because they were part of such hideous storylines as ‘War of the Gods’, ‘Bloodlines’, and ‘Underworld Unleashed’. Hideous. The last large-scale project that DC did that I enjoyed was DC One Million. I absolutely loved it. Extremely well written (biased - I’m a Grant Morrison fiend), with an interesting take on the future of the DC universe.[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/7 "2004-05-03T14:48:30Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > But it just about HAS to be better than some of DC’s past offerings. There have been times in the past where the DC books and/or annuals were almost unreadable because they were part of such hideous storylines as ‘War of the Gods’, ‘Bloodlines’, and ‘Underworld Unleashed’. Hideous. Admittedly, there are some stinkers (though I wouldn’t put War of the Gods as one of them) - but look over at Marvel’s track record with these sorts of events. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/8 "2004-05-03T16:53:34Z")
War of the Gods wasn’t _too_ horrible I guess, but DC has been very uneven in the quality of these ‘events’. > [@CandidGamera](#): > > but look over at Marvel’s track record with these sorts of events. No, thank you. 😉 Seriously, though, only the excellent Marvels stands out as a readable crossover from the “competition”. I also enjoyed the Inifinity Gauntlet, until it turned into “The Infinity Yearly-Event”. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/9 "2004-05-03T16:54:58Z")
Obviously, _Marvels_ wasn’t a **crossover**. :smack: I sleepy… ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/10 "2004-05-03T19:24:12Z")
War of the Gods, when read in one sitting, actually makes for a pretty good story. However, when it came out, the releases were so uncoordinated that some issues were based on information from issues that were not yet available to readers. That left a sour taste in the mouths of many of us readers. Underworld Unleashed, I actually liked. Now Genesis…that was totally stinker-iffic. Awful. Stupid. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/11 "2004-05-03T19:38:35Z")
Hmm… I think I tend to enjoy most of the DC mega-crossovers… because A.) I really like crossovers… and B) The DC world is so integrated that most of the crossovers feel natural. Good - Crisis, Zero Hour, DC One Million, Legends, Final Night Middle - War of the Gods, Day of Judgment, Underworld Unleashed, Genesis Bad - Millennium, Bloodlines, Our World at War (Or whatever it was called.) The only good Marvel Crossovers that hop to mind are Infinity Gauntlet and Fall of the Mutants … the rest barely coming up to middle-range, if that. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/12 "2004-05-03T20:24:13Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Underworld Unleashed, I actually liked. I wasn’t a fan of the story, but I’ll always have a little soft spot for it because it spawned a catchphrase with me and my comic / pop-culture friends. When a celebrity is suddenly very popular (especially for no apparent reason), we say they ‘lit a candle’. When a celebrity’s star suddenly fades, we say ‘their candle went out’. Example: “Good grief! Vin Diesel lit a candle, didn’t he?” OR “Michael Jackson’s candle went out.” Well, _we_ think it’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/13 "2004-05-04T01:02:46Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Coming out in June. Details [here](http://www.bradmeltzer.com/other/identity.html). > > Any thoughts? > > As for the murder victim… my money’s on Snapper Carr. I was guessing that th’ victim will be the Elongated Man, but the teaser says “someone close to the JLA”, so it’s gotta be Snapper. Which pisses me off. This Metzger bozo is yet another no-name\* trying to make a name for himself by breaking other people’s toys (regardless of which classic character he snuffs). :rolleyes: I thought that mindset died in the '80s (mercifully). Grrrrrr…:mad: Luckily as proven by the really stoopid Zatanna mini-series (you remember, the one where she decided that talking backwards was offensive to her as a womyn so she traded her fishnets and backwards speak for a punk outfit and started using a big hard staff to cast spells 'cause using hard, long staff with a knob on the end is _sooo_ much more in tune with the femayle mysteries), if DC thinks the results are stupid enough (or hell, if enough fans do) DC will just ignore the mini-series. Don’t get me wrong, I’m ok with deaths that make sense for the story and/or that are appropriate. Flash’s death was fine. Kara’s death worked. The original Doom Patrol (which is back. Per Byrne “Who cares how!”)'s death was classic. But the recent "Let’s snuff Donna Troy so we can start off our new series with a “Big Event” or the crappy “Emerald Dawn” (which is being undone–GL 81 IIRC is Kyle’s last issue) where they ignored 30 years of character development to try to shock the audience (it could have been done well. It wasn’t.) are examples of the sort of thing I hate. And it sure sounds like this Identity Crisis thing is yet another story of that ilk. Fenris \*As far as I can tell, his entire output was a (IMO) crappy Green Arrow arc that convinced me to drop the book. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/14 "2004-05-04T01:14:59Z")
Am I the only one who thinks that _Oracle_(Barbara Gordon) is the more probable victim? She is close to the JLA, and whoever murdered her would have access to secrets that could rip apart the JLA. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/15 "2004-05-04T01:44:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks that _Oracle_(Barbara Gordon) is the more probable victim? She is close to the JLA, and whoever murdered her would have access to secrets that could rip apart the JLA. I hope you’re wrong (and one bit of evidence argues against the Oracle theory “rumor has it that the murder that sets the story in motion revolves around someone very close to the original Justice League”–Oracle/Batgirl didn’t meet the “original” League until JLA 61 or so. So she wasn’t all that close to them.) as Oracle is one of the great examples about how a good writer (Ostrander) can take a toy that someone else broke and build something _better_ with it. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/16 "2004-05-04T04:58:39Z")
Fenris: > [@](#): > > This Metzger bozo is yet another no-name\* trying to make a name for himself by breaking other people’s toys (regardless of which classic character he snuffs). Errr…Brad Meltzer is a best-selling novelist, whose genre specialty is mystery/suspense. He sure as heck doesn’t need to “make a name for himself” in the comic book medium, and if he’s killing someone (which of course is what the Previews say), it’s probably for the sake of kicking off a heck of an interesting story. I won’t say I was very enamored of his Green Arrow story, but he’s certainly no hack or no-name. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/17 "2004-05-04T05:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Secret identities play a central role in _Identity Crisis_, and the story revolves around two mysteries – a devastating murder and a dark secret from the Justice League’s past that’s been hidden for years. I swear, this “dark secret” and “devastating murder” business sounds like it was lifted right out from Alan Moore’s classic 80s TWILIGHT proposal. > [@](#): > > Brad Meltzer: “It’s a murder mystery set in the DC Universe. People die, people suffer and people are changed by the time it’s over. _Identity Crisis_ is as much about the characters when the masks are off as when the masks are on.” This makes me think it has to do with recent retcnned events in the DCU. > [@](#): > > The fallout from _Identity Crisis_ will touch every hero in the DCU – most notably the classic lineup from the early years of the Justice League, including Green Arrow, Hawkman, Atom, Elongated Man, Zatanna and Black Canary. “Plus, every other character I could squeeze in there that I had something to say about!” laughs Meltzer. Sometimes NOT saying something says something. Note the omission of DC’s Big Three, the current incarnations of Flash and Green Lantern, and the stalwart of every incarnation of the JLA: J’onn J’onnz, the Martian Manhunter. The omission of the first five merely verifies that this is the retconned JLA we’re dealing with. The omission of the last character makes me go, “Hmmmmm…” > [@](#): > > That includes the families of heroes (rumor has it that the murder that sets the story in motion revolves around someone very close to the original Justice League), as well as a legion of DC villains (look for Meltzer to put a shocking spin on some of DC’s most notorious baddies). My take: since this is a project that takes on secret identities and posits itself as the next big DCU event, my guess is that it will take advantage of recent retconned events in DCU continuity. The phase, “dark hidden secret” leads me to believe it may have something to do with the events in JLA: Year One, where J’onn J’onn did major investigative work on the secret identities of every major DCU hero, from the JSA to the Metal Men to the newly formed JLA – files that were compromised by alien invaders who briefly enslaved Earth’s heroes on Blackhawk Island using the information in J’onn’s files. This hunch leads me to think J’onn J’onzz is a likelier murder victim than Snapper Carr. It’s his files, his dark secret and he’s the only major character outside the Big DC Three (Supes, Bats and Wondy) and the “new” Green Lantern and Flash NOT named in the link. Also, J’onn is the only hero at Marvel and DC with multiple secret identities, a fact that could have major ramifications if that fact were ever made public. Now watch it turns out to be the Red Tornado all along. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/18 "2004-05-04T11:46:07Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Fenris: > > Errr…Brad Meltzer is a best-selling novelist, whose genre specialty is mystery/suspense. He sure as heck doesn’t need to “make a name for himself” in the comic book medium, and if he’s killing someone (which of course is what the Previews say), it’s probably for the sake of kicking off a heck of an interesting story. > > I won’t say I was very enamored of his Green Arrow story, but he’s certainly no hack or no-name. :o Thanks **Chaim**. I hadn’t realized that he was an established writer. And the fact that he’s a mystery writer _does_ give a reason to have a character snuffed other than shock value. I checked out rec.arts.comics.dc.universe and some of their speculation: Sue Dibney: She knows everyone’s ID, she’s an obvious target–her hubby’s ID is public. And the idea would be to make Ralph a darker character to distinguish him from Plastic Man. Th’ problem with this is that who wants to read about Nick without Nora? It would destroy the character. Lana Lang: ? I don’t get this one. Outside of Supes I don’t think she knows anyone/thing and her only current claim to fame is that she’s the (ex?)President’s (ex?)Wife. Ma and/or Pa Kent: Ditto. They’ve seen Bats and a few others without their masks, but I thought they were on a “first name only” basis. Kyle: This makes sense. With DC bringing back Hal and cancelling Kyle’s book, it’s a prime moment to snuff Kyle (although I hope not. There’s room for more than one GL in DC and the character has grown on me now that we’re past the whiney “Am I a _reaaaaal_ hero yet?” stuff) Snapper: But he doesn’t know anyone’s ID, so it wouldn’t be all that earth-shaking. Ronnie Raymond: There’s a new Firestorm book (this week) and the guy who suggested this thought it would tie the new Firestorm book in. [A clue](http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/p-C100322.html). Note that of the major players, GL, of the big 5, is missing. Ralph is there (and in something other than that yukky lavender and cream costume) which lends credence to the “Sue” theory. Zatanna is there though. As far as I know, Zatanna has no connection with Kyle or Sue…but she served with the character who **Askia** mentioned for about 20 issues. And that character isn’t listed. One other bit of speculation: the coffin may be symbolic–what if Sue (or whoever) was kidnapped, tortured (yuk) and spilled everyone’s ID. S/he doesn’t have to actually die, although the threat of death is there hence the coffin. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/19 "2004-05-04T12:34:26Z")
Lots of interesting speculation… so GL #81 is Kyle’s last? What’s the source on this? Who’s taking over? Not Hal, surely… I think Hal works as the Spectre. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692/20 "2004-05-04T16:10:29Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Lots of interesting speculation… so GL #81 is Kyle’s last? What’s the source on this? Who’s taking over? Not Hal, surely… I think Hal works as the Spectre. [Details (& some possible spoilers) here. And don’t call me Shirley.](http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12393) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-event-identity-crisis/242692.md?page=2)