# DC Comics: Identity Crisis-NO SPOILER BOXES INSIDE! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 10, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594 "2004-06-10T03:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/21 "2004-06-11T16:10:23Z")
Fenris: > [@](#): > > But it’s always just been the one Amazo, built and rebuilt.I just think the idea of multiple Amazos is creepy. There was at least one story, in JLI Quarterly # 5, in which Professor Ivo had about six power-stealing robots that were referred to in the story as “Amazoids.” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/22 "2004-06-11T16:56:23Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Fenris: > > There was at least one story, in JLI Quarterly # 5, in which Professor Ivo had about six power-stealing robots that were referred to in the story as “Amazoids.” :eek: I wonder if I have the issue. Thanks for the reference! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/23 "2004-06-11T21:26:34Z")
I finally decided to pick up the ish, and it really is better than I thought it would be. Sue’s death and Ralph’s reactions were absolutely heartbreaking, even more emotionally wrenching than I thought they’d be. That said, the pregnancy test thing was really lame, and it just reminded me of last year’s Zoom story in _Flash_. Also? Not a huge fan of Rags Morales. Not at all. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/24 "2004-06-11T21:33:01Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Also? Not a huge fan of Rags Morales. Not at all. The Michael Bair inks didn’t do him any favors (Wonder of Al Weiss is available for inking gigs these days?), but at his best (_Black Condor, Hawkman, Hourman_), he’s up there with the best, somewhere between Bernie Wrightson and Shawn McManus. Usually, artists that detail-oriented decide pretty quick that they’re too “cool” to work on superhero books, so it’s a real plus to me that he stays with it. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/25 "2004-06-11T23:03:24Z")
While I was trying to identify the “pasty-faced guy” that Fenris was referring to (he doesn’t seem to me to be anyone specific, just a crowd-filler), I discovered something remarkable: Jack Knight is there! (between Kyle Rayner and Star Spangled Kid) That would make this his first comics appearance since his series ended, wouldn’t it! ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/26 "2004-06-11T23:48:38Z")
> [@](#): > > The Michael Bair inks didn’t do him any favors Aha, that makes sense, since I’ve heard praise for him on here and other places. I’ll have to pick up some of his other work and see if I like it. It’s mostly the eyes that get me in this book; they’re just creepy. As far as spotting characters goes: who is that between Wildcat and Firehawk on the funeral spread? What about the guy standing next to Vixen? ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/27 "2004-06-12T01:04:56Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > As far as spotting characters goes: who is that between Wildcat and Firehawk on the funeral spread? Tazmanian Devil, I think. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/28 "2004-06-12T01:42:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Tazmanian Devil, I think. Oho, you’re right. Thanks. Also, it turns out I _have_ seen more of Rags’ work. I got the recent Hawkman issues with Hawkwoman and Animal Man in them. I do like his work better there, but for some reason the way he draws eyes still creeps me out (especially on Hawkman’s mask). ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/29 "2004-06-12T03:33:28Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Atom’s costume becomes invisible when he’s full sized. We should never see him in costume and tall. Not true anymore. Not since his ill-fated solo series from many years ago. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/30 "2004-06-12T06:09:49Z")
Why, in this storyline, does it take place AFTER Tim’s dad found out that Tim was Robin, but Tim is still functioning as Robin? Is the Tim-is-not-Robin thing going to be that short-lived? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/31 "2004-06-12T12:46:23Z")
The Tim/Robin/Dad thing doesn’t make any sense continuity-wise (it’s one of a couple of errors\*) but yeah, Tim’s retired as long as Willingham has the book (and it’s an example of how to do a storyline you want _without_ breaking other people’s toys. **JThunder** : IIRC, in Atom’s series, though, they just started doing it, they never actually explained why, did they? Fenris \*Another is "Why is Guy in his GL outfit with his bad '80s haircut? The answer to both, per Rags “That’s the references we were given”. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/32 "2004-06-12T16:53:32Z")
Speaking of errors, what’s up with Captain Atom being there at all? Did he come back at some point after he piloted the Composite Superman robot in Superman/Batman? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/33 "2004-06-12T17:36:58Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Speaking of errors, what’s up with Captain Atom being there at all? Did he come back at some point after he piloted the Composite Superman robot in Superman/Batman? I dunno–there’s a lot of discussion about that on the DC newsgroup. Another continuity woopsie–Bolt died, pretty graphically and horribly on-panel in Suicide Squad. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/34 "2004-06-12T18:57:10Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The Tim/Robin/Dad thing doesn’t make any sense continuity-wise (it’s one of a couple of errors\*) but yeah, Tim’s retired as long as Willingham has the book (and it’s an example of how to do a storyline you want _without_ breaking other people’s toys. Then I hope his writing tenure is very, very short. I want Tim back already, and he’s only been gone a month! ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/35 "2004-06-12T19:44:54Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > **JThunder** : IIRC, in Atom’s series, though, they just started doing it, they never actually explained why, did they? Actually, they did offer an explanation. I don’t recall the details, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/36 "2004-06-12T21:04:38Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Then I hope his writing tenure is very, very short. I want Tim back already, and he’s only been gone a month! I want Tim removed from the Robin tights permanently. personally. Perhaps back in tights in general (Tim’s cool, after all), but with a new identity. (I was thinking it would be amusing if he took the name Flamebird. But that’s just a silly part of my mind.) Let both Robin and Tim change. Dick was allowed to grow up, and become Nightwing, why should Tim have to stagnate as the Boy Wonder? ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/37 "2004-06-12T21:14:34Z")
He shouldn’t. But unless they’re going to age him, he’s not old enough to be someone “else” yet. I don’t like changing characters around just to change them. And I really, really, really like the character of Tim, but I fear a spin off book would falter if it didn’t have the “Robin” title. And it’s rare enough that we see Robin in the Batman books. I don’t want to have a situation like we had with Dick, before Nightwing was launched, where we only saw the character once in awhile. Tim’s too cool for that. It’s bad enough that Young Justice has been replaced with the massively-inferior Teen Titans. If they take Tim out of there and replace him with Spoiler-Who-Doesn’t-Deserve-To-Be-Robin, I’ll drop the book altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/38 "2004-06-12T22:24:45Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > He shouldn’t. But unless they’re going to age him, he’s not old enough to be someone “else” yet. Don’t be silly. He’s a teenager, he should be growing and coming into his own, and shifting out of the Robin identity can be - should be - part of that. Also, giving the Robin identity to Steph is a good way of bringing Robin into Hir own, as a separate entity from Batman. > [@](#): > > And I really, really, really like the character of Tim, but I fear a spin off book would falter if it didn’t have the “Robin” title. And this is just a strange argument. Steph didn’t get the Robin identity in a vaccuum - she has a pre-existing relationship and partnership with Tim. There’s no reason to remove Tim from the Robin book while it’s spearheaded by Steph, and any new identity he takes would naturally fall into a partnership with Robin, as Robin and Spoiler had - in the Robin title, until he’d been established to the point they his new name would be recognised enough to carry a book, most likely. ‘If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ is lousy narative theory. It leads to a character being in his mid-teens for 14 years and not being allowed to grow into his own person. It is, of course, the way Superhero comics work, which is why I’ve become significantly less enamoured with the genre. Things like this, or the various shakeups they’ve done to Superman, or the Tangents universe briefly cause my enthusiasm to flare, despite my - pretty much invariably correct - fear that they’ll revert to the old status quo. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/39 "2004-06-12T22:50:50Z")
A book where Tim isn’t the main character, but instead plays second fiddle to an underserving replacement, is not acceptable, either. DC’s continuity is all screwed up, but Tim couldn’t be more than a couple years older than he was when he first became Robin (if the timeline were logical, he’d be about five years older, but since those numbskulls insist Batman’s only been Batman for 10 years, that’s not possible). I’d like to see the DCU get onto a reasonable timeline standard, so that Tim would age, go to college, and logically give up Robin to a new person (Carrie Kelly! Carrie Kelly!), but so long as retards like Denny O’Niel call the shots, that won’t happen. And I’ve never seen the word “Hir” before. Robin already has his own identity, and has since the launch of his first solo mini over ten years ago. I don’t mind progress. I do mind tossing aside a great character for a whiney little girl who I’d prefer to see follow in Jason Todd’s footsteps than Tim Drake’s. Every scene with that ditz Steph makes me miss Ariana more. A book starring Steph with Tim in the background is a book that should be burned, not read. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/40 "2004-06-12T23:17:44Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Robin already has his own identity, and has since the launch of his first solo mini over ten years ago. No, he doesn’t - Robin doesn’t exist, except in relation to Batman, and (to a lesser extent) Nightwing. Your first post (‘And it’s rare enough that we see Robin in the Batman books.’), just goes to prove that. You don’t like Steph - that’s fine. I’m one of the few people who liked Jason Todd. (Then again, I was, like 10 when he was killed off - which, despite the fact that I liked him, I thought was damned cool.) Chason sa gout, and all that. But that’s a very different argument than the idea that a young man in his mid teens is too young to be changing his superheroic identity. He’s at exactly the right age that if he were a normal teenager he’d be in the midst of attempting to remake himself as his own individual - why would a costumed identity be more static than his real identity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594.md?page=3)