# DC Comics: Identity Crisis-NO SPOILER BOXES INSIDE! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 10, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594 "2004-06-10T03:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/41 "2004-06-13T01:54:48Z")
I picked up a copy of Issue 1 today. Something that struck me as more than a bit odd: Given the fact that the character is associated with multiple incarnations of the Justice League, and that his primary alter ego is a police detective, the Martian Manhunter seemed conspicuous by his absence. If I count correctly, he is mentioned only once and appears in all of two panels–the big funeral scene, and the panel where he and Aquaman do the old “Justice League Team-Up” thing to round up Mirror Master. Because, you know, you want to make sure Aquaman has your back when you go up against a mirror-themed villain, especially if your only powers are super-strength, flight, laser eyes, shapeshifting, invisibility, intangibility and the ability to read thoughts. Another seeming oddity: on the same page, we learn that the rest of the current Justice League apart from Batman is sent out to capture… Bolt. Now, aside from the whole “being dead in-continuity” thing, this is the same Bolt who was riddled with bullets a few pages previously, yes? The same Bolt who presumably only survived because one of his assailants had an unaccountable change of heart and called the paramedics? The same Bolt who, evidently, even when he is at the top of his game, can’t teleport an object as large as a refrigerator, and can’t teleport fast enough to get out of the way of two guys whom he suspects may have guns and to whom he’s (apparently) just announced his intention to double-cross? Did any part of the sequence surrounding Bolt make any sense at all? Wouldn’t the paramedics be able to confirm that Bolt was getting his ass perforated in an alley at the time of the Dibny murder? Why would he need Luthor’s power armor, especially if he can’t teleport it? What is this riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma that is Bolt? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/42 "2004-06-13T02:25:43Z")
Excellent points! Here’s a coupel of ideas. > [@Terrifel](#): > > The same Bolt who, evidently, even when he is at the top of his game, can’t teleport an object as large as a refrigerator, and can’t teleport fast enough to get out of the way of two guys whom he suspects may have guns and to whom he’s (apparently) just announced his intention to double-cross? I think the problem is that he trusted The Calculator–an 18% chance that they had guns is pretty good odds for a double-cross. If the person figuring the odds is accurate. Which, oops…he wasn’t. > [@](#): > > Why would he need Luthor’s power armor, especially if he can’t teleport it? What is this riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma that is Bolt? IIRC, Bolt’s schtick is to loot other people’s tech. Assuming that that _was_ the Luthor power armor (some Usenet folks are arguing (not real convincingly, IMO) that it’s Amazo upside-down–the red thing on the “chest” is, to them, an “A”) I could see him dismantling it and taking the parts he wanted. Maybe he only wanted the blaster parts or the force-field generator (assuming there was one) Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/43 "2004-06-13T02:58:26Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > What about the guy standing next to Vixen? If he weren’t standing up, I’d guess that was Niles Caulder, the chief of the Doom Patrol. Maybe his wheelchair has a lift kit? Maybe it’s Cave Carson or one of the Sea Devils? Who’s that Nightwing is talking to? Is that Access? Is this his first appearance since _Marvel vs. DC_? And those two women with Animal Man–is he still polygamous? Or did his not-Ellen girlfriend look different from that blond woman? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/44 "2004-06-13T03:03:44Z")
Oh, Jade and Beast Boy are wearing matching costumes! They’d be a cute couple. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/45 "2004-06-13T03:04:30Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > No, he doesn’t - Robin doesn’t exist, except in relation to Batman, and (to a lesser extent) Nightwing. Your first post (‘And it’s rare enough that we see Robin in the Batman books.’), just goes to prove that. Okay, hello, please parse the sentence I wrote: “It’s rare enough that we see Robin in the Batman books,” which also means _we rarely see Robin in the Batman books_, ie Tim Drake exists as a separate character from Batman. Batman and Robin are, today, only tangentally connected. Tim has his own, separate identity. But it’s an identity as Robin. People knew Dick Grayson, they would follow Dick Grayson from Robin to Nightwing. But Tim Drake? Dick was a character for 60 years before he had enough heft to carry his own book. I don’t think anyone would read a Tim Drake book that wasn’t Robin. I hope people would stop reading a Robin book if it weren’t Tim Drake. I’ll admit to a certain attachment to Tim Drake. My first comic book was “A Lonely Place of Dying, Part 1.” I think that I also had a crush on him, when I was younger. In fact, I’m sure I did. Probably because of the red in his costume. I love red. > [@](#): > > But that’s a very different argument than the idea that a young man in his mid teens is too young to be changing his superheroic identity. He’s at exactly the right age that if he were a normal teenager he’d be in the midst of attempting to remake himself as his own individual - why would a costumed identity be more static than his real identity. Because Tim’s not a rebel. In college, sure, I could see him move beyond Robin. But not right now. He loves being Robin. I’d much rather see a Tim Drake-as-Robin-on-the-lam-from-dad storyline than “Tim’s Girlfriend Gets To Be Robin, Even Though She’s Totally Unqualified!” ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/46 "2004-06-13T03:09:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Who’s that Nightwing is talking to? Is that Access? Is this his first appearance since Marvel vs. DC? I’m pretty sure that’s Roy Harper, actually. In his new ultra-generic Outsiders costume. Is he still calling himself Arsenal? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/47 "2004-06-13T03:18:35Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Okay, hello, please parse the sentence I wrote: “It’s rare enough that we see Robin in the Batman books,” which also means _we rarely see Robin in the Batman books_, ie Tim Drake exists as a separate character from Batman. If Robin is separate from Batman, why is his connection to Batman so important that removing Robin from the Batman books either a bad thing or even in any way remarkable. The fact that you brought up Batman at all is proof of my point - Robin is inextricably connected to Batman. > [@](#): > > Because Tim’s not a rebel. … Who the hell said anything about **rebellion**? He’s a teenager, he’s at the point where a child will be growing into himself, and attempting to define himself as an individual. This has nothing to do with rebellion, it has to do with growing up. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/48 "2004-06-13T12:25:19Z")
I inspected the cover and noticed that two important members of the JLA were absent–Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern–and wondered if either of them was going to die. Since ther is a rumor going around that Hal Jordan will return as GL, I figured it must be Kyle Whatsit. So much for my detective skills. But, hey, six more issues to go! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/49 "2004-06-13T12:39:08Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > If he weren’t standing up, I’d guess that was Niles Caulder, the chief of the Doom Patrol. Maybe his wheelchair has a lift kit? Maybe it’s Cave Carson or one of the Sea Devils? It _looks_ like Niles. Maybe they’ve got him in a higher seat? > [@](#): > > Who’s that Nightwing is talking to? Is that Access? Is this his first appearance since _Marvel vs. DC_? Better not be Access–neither company is allowed to use Access unless they’re both involved in the project. I think it’s Speedy (Arsenal) . Fenris ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/50 "2004-06-14T04:10:59Z")
That’s definitely Arsenal that Nightwing is talking to. As long as we’re playing “faces in the crowd”, here’s some from me: Who’s the woman with the short blond hair next to Animal Man? Who’s that to Kid Flash/Impulse’s left - Wonder Girl? I thought she was blond these days. (Actually, now that I mention it, maybe she’s Animal Man’s neighbor?) Maybe Phantom Lady II? It does seem like Ralph’s involvement in Grand Gugniol in Opal City is being played up…that appears to be the detective Hamilton Drew between Kid Flash and Black Condor, Jack Knight two over (as I mentioned earlier) and I think the guy to Doctor Mid-Nite’s left is Bobo Benetti. Can anyone identify that guy between Doctor Mid-Nite and Gypsy? Perhaps Superboy? One hero whose absence seems conspicuous to me is Plastic Man. Yes, you wouldn’t necessarily want a goofball like him at a funeral, but as somewhat rivals, it would seem appropriate for Plas to have a serious moment and be there to support Ralph. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/51 "2004-06-14T05:29:49Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > I want Tim removed from the Robin tights permanently. personally. > > Perhaps back in tights in general (Tim’s cool, after all), but with a new identity. (I was thinking it would be amusing if he took the name Flamebird. But that’s just a silly part of my mind.) > > Let both Robin and Tim change. Dick was allowed to grow up, and become Nightwing, why should Tim have to stagnate as the Boy Wonder? Actually, if Chuck Dixon had stayed at DC, his plan was for Ted Kord to retire and Tim Drake to succeed him as the next Blue Beetle. There was foreshadowing for this back as far as Birds Of Prey #15 and 19, where Tim, who was trained by BATMAN, was really impressed by meeting Blue Beetle and revealed himself to be a big fan. But Dixon went to Crossgen Comics, and this never happened. –Lou Biggest Blue Beetle fan on the SDMB ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/52 "2004-06-14T06:03:39Z")
Tim Drake = Blue Beetle? That actually sounds workable. ---
**Author:** ![dangergene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@dangergene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangergene)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/53 "2004-06-14T14:04:48Z")
workable, but WIERD! Has Tim ever shown the proclivity towards gadgetry that Ted Kord showed? How was it framed up in Birds of Prey? (spoilers please). ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/54 "2004-06-14T15:14:53Z")
There’s never a Joker-planted Ethiopian warehouse bomb when you need one. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594/55 "2004-06-14T21:22:12Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Actually, if Chuck Dixon had stayed at DC, his plan was for Ted Kord to retire and Tim Drake to succeed him as the next Blue Beetle. That would have been pretty cool. Actually, since the idea’s already out there, I wonder if the current writers might run with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-comics-identity-crisis-no-spoiler-boxes-inside/249594.md?page=2)