# DC Court of Appeals rules against Trump Immunity, SCOTUS Makes a Different Decision **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 6, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188 "2024-02-06T15:22:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/81 "2024-02-06T20:55:27Z")
So what happens next? Let’s assume that this issue dies fairly quickly…say by mid-March the supreme court has issued its decision, and this question of immunity is dead. What other options does Trump have to delay the trial? He still needs to buy about 6 months of time, to make the trial disappear entirely. How can he do it? (maybe fire his lawyers? what else?) ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/82 "2024-02-06T20:59:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I just heard court watchers far more experienced and expert than me speculate that the SCOTUS will _not_ deny cert, because they will want to be seen as putting their imprimatur on such an important landmark decision This is my expectation, as I mentioned in the Jack SMith/Jan. 6 thread. I’m sorry to disagree with your earlier prediction they would deny cert (and desperately hope you are right), but I strongly think they are going to take it for the reasons you mention here. They will want a definitive ruling from the highest court of the land on this. Even if they expedite, t’s going to be another delay, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/83 "2024-02-06T21:04:56Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > I assume they will set deadlines for Trump’s brief and a reply brief, so we are talking a few weeks at a minimum. I was thinking after the Trump team puts in a brief… I hope the reply from the SC is quickly done and very short. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/84 "2024-02-06T21:05:06Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I looked in on a predominantly RW message board after this morning’s decision was handed down. They’re beside themselves, and pretty much every one is stating some variation of, “How can this be? He was acquitted by the Senate!” I keep wondering if there’s a tipping point for MAGA. At what point are they going to take a good hard look at why Trump keeps losing court cases? ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/85 "2024-02-06T21:07:23Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > At what point are they going to take a good hard look at why Trump keeps losing court cases? According to the experienced political strategists on Breitbart, today was a HUGE victory for Trump because it means he can prosecute Obama and Biden when he gets back into office. Somehow I think it’s going to take a miracle to get through to these people. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/86 "2024-02-06T21:09:12Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Well, let me just complicate the apprehension by saying that I just heard court watchers far more experienced and expert than me speculate that the SCOTUS will _not_ deny cert, because they will want to be seen as putting their imprimatur on such an important landmark decision (it’s really not one, IMHO), but that they will split the baby by expediting this important landmark decision. I am no court watching expert but I disagree. I think the conservatives will want to help Trump (more broadly, conservatives). It is almost impossible to see them say the president is immune but they will delay the whole thing as long as possible making it all more fraught as the election nears. Which, in their view, will get out the conservative vote. I seriously doubt the likes of Thomas gives a shit about putting his imprimatur on anything. He wants money in his bank account. Fuck the rest of it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/87 "2024-02-06T21:23:54Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I looked in on a predominantly RW message board… Just out of curiosity, what are some RW boards that I could check out? If we aren’t supposed to show them here, a PM would be fine. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/88 "2024-02-06T21:23:55Z")
This site gives a pretty good overview of the prospective timetable: > **[How Long Will Trump’s Immunity Appeal Take? Analyzing the Alternative Timelines](https://www.justsecurity.org/91837/how-long-will-trumps-immunity-appeal-take-analyzing-the-alternative-timelines/)** > > Likely trial start dates for former president Trump in DC, now that the Circuit Court has ruled and the Supreme Court has yet to weigh in. Tl;dr version: > Our analysis suggests that a trial, which is anticipated to last between 8 and 12 weeks, may conclude in **late August or early September** if the Supreme Court denies Trump’s eventual cert petition or in **mid to late October** if the Supreme Court grants Trump’s cert petition. Of course IANAL. What do the legal minds of the dope think of that timeline? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/89 "2024-02-06T21:25:22Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > This is my expectation, as I mentioned in the Jack SMith/Jan. 6 thread. I’m sorry to disagree with your earlier prediction they would deny cert (and desperately hope you are right), but I strongly think they are going to take it for the reasons you mention here. They will want a definitive ruling from the highest court of the land on this. Even if they expedite, t’s going to be another delay, IMO. But doesn’t denying cert effectively place their imprimatur upon the D.C. Court’s decision? I realize SCOTUS can be inscrutable in denying cert—who can tell why?—but ISTM in this instance, with a case of this significance, it’s impossible to read their denial as anything other than “we agree that the D.C. Circuit Court got it exactly right.” I may be just trying to talk myself into the outcome I’d desperately prefer. And certainly I’m not dismissing expert opinions to the contrary. But I really don’t see why this isn’t the right move for SCOTUS, from every angle. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/90 "2024-02-06T21:26:05Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > What do the legal minds of the dope think of that timeline? I think no matter what happens, after the inevitable Trump team delays, the MAGAts will turn around and blame Biden personally for the trial being delayed. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/91 "2024-02-06T21:28:50Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > According to the experienced political strategists on Breitbart, today was a HUGE victory for Trump because it means he can prosecute Obama and Biden when he gets back into office. Oh, wow. This was one of the first things my mother said about the decision. Now they can prosecute Bush, Obama, and Biden. For what? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/92 "2024-02-06T21:32:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I seriously doubt the likes of Thomas gives a shit about putting his imprimatur on anything. He wants money in his bank account. Fuck the rest of it. Then how do you explain stuff like this? > **[Court denies Trump’s request to intervene in Mar-a-Lago documents case -...](https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/10/court-denies-trumps-request-to-intervene-in-mar-a-lago-documents-case/)** > > The Supreme Court on Thursday afternoon rejected a request from former President Donald Trump to allow a special master to review about 100 documents, marked as classified, that the FBI seized from Trump’s home. The ruling came in an unsigned... Pay especial attention to the dates. Trump made his request on October 4th. The SCOTUS ruled on October 13th. They can move fast when they want. And Thomas did not formally disagree with the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/93 "2024-02-06T21:36:02Z")
> The ruling came in an [unsigned one-sentence order](https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/101322zr_2d8f.pdf) Hardly the court or Thomas getting in to it. If he saw all the other justices were going one way there was no profit for him to mess with it. It was a one sentence, unsigned decision. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/94 "2024-02-06T21:36:04Z")
Easy: He wasn’t being paid to help Trump, therefore he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/95 "2024-02-06T21:39:57Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > What do the legal minds of the dope think of that timeline? I am not a legal mind, but thanks for posting that, it’s very comprehensive. If it’s accurate, it makes me feel a lot better about this, they think even on the slowest likely schedule with them hearing the appeal that an approx 3-month trial would start around end July ending right around election day. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/96 "2024-02-06T21:40:09Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > But doesn’t denying cert effectively place their imprimatur upon the D.C. Court’s decision? I realize SCOTUS can be inscrutable in denying cert—who can tell why?—but ISTM in this instance, with a case of this significance, it’s impossible to read their denial as anything other than “we agree that the D.C. Circuit Court got it exactly right.” I am talking from a place of pure speculation, but I do think there is a perception difference in actually ruling in their own language vs. just denying cert. Even if they know they are going to rule 9-0, I think they’ll want to take the time to send that signal. I hope I am wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/97 "2024-02-06T21:41:53Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > What do the legal minds of the dope think of that timeline? That’s a really interesting timeline. Thanks for sharing it. What it does make me wonder is if the lengthy delay by the DC Circuit Court in issuing its ruling was in some part due to playing chicken with the SCOTUS. Obviously I have no proof of any kind, but maybe – in addition to wanting to be sure their ruling was ironclad, of course – they were pushing the clock to force SCOTUS to deny cert if they, SCOTUS, want the trial to take place before the election. That’s all I’ve got. What the SCOTUS chooses to do is anyone’s guess. How far do they want to lead with their chins? The outcome, whether they take it up or not, is really not in dispute. The timeline is still helpful. * * * > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Hardly the court or Thomas getting in to it. As the justice who oversees the Eleventh Circuit, Thomas certainly got into it, signed or unsigned. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/98 "2024-02-06T21:59:57Z")
Thanks for posting that. They had a similar estimated timeline prior to this ruling that I had been looking at - never occurred to me they would just update it. With that said, the prior one was really good at anticipating what actually occurred so it didn’t change much. Maybe I missed it, but I read in the NYT today that the trial Judge said whatever amount of time that is “paused” by a this appeal/stay, she would give back to the Defense. So, if we pause for 120 days (from Dec until April) to sort this out, there would be no trial for at least 120 days when it gets back to the trial court; or 60 days, or whatever it turns out to be. As far as I can tell, the analysis in your link keeps saying _whenever_ it gets back to trial court there will be “3 months” until trial - which makes sense but doesn’t follow the day for day suggestion. It’s possible I’m misunderstanding this. Here’s the [NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/us/politics/whats-next-federal-election-case-trump.html) and language: > Whether or not the underlying case remains frozen in place will have a direct effect on when it will go to trial. Just last week, Judge Chutkan, who is overseeing the case in Federal District Court in Washington, [scrapped her initial trial date of March 4](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/us/politics/trump-trial-election-date-delay.html), bowing to the reality that time had run out to get the proceeding underway by then. > > In recent court papers, Judge Chutkan said that, in the interest of fairness, she did not want Mr. Trump and his lawyers to be penalized by the pause in the case. **She suggested that for every day of trial preparation they lost to the freeze, she would push the trial back by an equal number of days**. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/99 "2024-02-06T22:05:38Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Maybe I missed it, but I read in the NYT today that the trial Judge said whatever amount of time that is “paused” by a this appeal/stay, she would give back to the Defense That is factored into the timeline: > Upon denial of cert, the case would then return immediately to the district court, which would restart pretrial proceedings. With another three months of those pretrial proceedings to go, trial would begin approximately **June 1**. (It is likely that Judge Chutkan will use the same period of time, though she may choose a shorter schedule this second time around.) A three month trial would then conclude around **Sept. 1**. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188/100 "2024-02-06T22:09:01Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > In recent court papers, Judge Chutkan said that, in the interest of fairness, she did not want Mr. Trump and his lawyers to be penalized by the pause in the case. Even though they are the ones who caused this pause in the first place. Okay then. Chutkan might as well just rule that any delays are just fine, and also she’d like the payment to be in ten’s and twenty’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-court-of-appeals-rules-against-trump-immunity-scotus-makes-a-different-decision/997188.md?page=6)