# DC Sniper to be executed tonight **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078 "2009-11-10T18:54:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/101 "2009-11-12T03:06:09Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > I’ve seen this arguement whenever this subject comes up, and I can’t figure out how executing someone is more expensive than imprisoning that same person. The cost of the state supporting him (food, clothes, medical care, just to start) for years or even decades must be astronomical. Check out [this page from the Death Penalty Information Centre](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty). It shows the comparative cost of the death penalty vs. non-death penalty prosecutions, and consistently shows that the death penalty costs more than the non-death penalty prosecutions. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/102 "2009-11-12T03:15:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What’s heinous about the execution? He got a very peaceful death, which few people get. Well, not necessarily. There’s some solid medical evidence that lethal injection is actually nightmarishly painful - that people under the influence of the three-drug cocktail may be paralyzed, but sufficiently conscious to feel a great deal of pain as their heart is stopped. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/103 "2009-11-12T03:20:22Z")
It is not just the incident of getting a painful death, it is knowing about it and facing it as it comes closer and closer. It must be horrible to count down day after day, then minute after minute until the day comes. I wonder how much worse it is when you are innocent? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/104 "2009-11-12T03:25:34Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Killing is wrong. if you do it, we will kill you. illogical and wrong. Well, kidnapping someone and keeping them locked in a room for 20 years is wrong, but if you do it, we’re going to grab you and keep you in a cell for 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/105 "2009-11-12T04:20:13Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Well, not necessarily. There’s some solid medical evidence that lethal injection is actually nightmarishly painful - that people under the influence of the three-drug cocktail may be paralyzed, but sufficiently conscious to feel a great deal of pain as their heart is stopped. There is no peer reviewed data to back up your position. [From Wiki:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection) Lethal Injection dosage: 2-5 grams Sodium thiopental (United States trade name: Sodium Pentothal) is an ultra-short acting barbiturate, often used for anesthesia induction and for medically induced coma. The typical anesthesia induction dose is 3–5 mg/kg. Loss of consciousness is induced within 30–45 seconds at the typical dose, while a 5 gram dose—14 times the normal dose—is likely to induce unconsciousness in 10 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/106 "2009-11-12T16:28:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I pretty much agree with **Martin Hyde** , except for completely non-religious reasons, as I’m a completely non-religious person. I’m anti Death Penalty, and I have no struggle with holding to that view even in this case. Part of that is, like \*\*Xtisme \*\*says, I’d rather think rotting in jail is as bad, or worse, than being executed. I don’t necessarily wish the guy to get raped, but he should be serving some serious hard time in jail for the rest of his living days. Are you assuming that the convicted will come to regret his actions? Is it possible that someone is so antisocial that they just don’t give a rats fuzzy butt what the rest of us thinks thinks about him, or sees no reason to care to change? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/107 "2009-11-12T16:32:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is no peer reviewed data to back up your position. > > [From Wiki:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection) > Lethal Injection dosage: 2-5 grams > Sodium thiopental (United States trade name: Sodium Pentothal) is an ultra-short acting barbiturate, often used for anesthesia induction and for medically induced coma. The typical anesthesia induction dose is 3–5 mg/kg. Loss of consciousness is induced within 30–45 seconds at the typical dose, while a 5 gram dose—14 times the normal dose—is likely to induce unconsciousness in 10 seconds. Those who are charged with administering the death penalty always describe it as clean and easy. The reality is often quite different. Electrocution was always described at quick and clean. It was proven not to be. Gas chambers had the same problem. They often were ugly and not as they said it would be. Why do we believe what they say now? Does it make it a little easier for death penalty fans? I understand if you need to convince yourself of how clean it is. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/108 "2009-11-12T16:42:36Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Those who are charged with administering the death penalty always describe it as clean and easy. The reality is often quite different. Please produce a credible cite showing that lethal injection is often a painful death. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/109 "2009-11-12T17:48:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It never has before, nor is it likely to start. People who think they won’t get caught aren’t going to be deterred by a penalty they don’t think they will face. And those who don’t trust the system to be fair aren’t going to be deterred by a penalty they think can and will be levied against them even if they are innocent. I’m not strongly convinced of the deterrent value of any form of punishment, period. I don’t think you stop crime by deterrence so I find arguments about the relative deterrent value of various punishments to be misplaced. Finally, I also think that when it comes to **serious crimes** the discussions should be about what is _just_ and what is necessary to protect society. From a philosophical/legal standpoint I view the criminal justice system as an intermediary to the “natural” human way of settling wrongs. Prior to government if I wronged someone else in the tribe things would be settled ad hoc and sometimes through violence. If I killed someone else in the tribe most likely the tribe would quickly run me off or quickly exact swift and final retribution. Since we are civilized and have layers of government that settle these things, I think the foundation of any legal system is providing a just and equitable result whether it be in a civil or criminal matter. While crimes are an offense against the state’s law, they are often offenses against an _individual person_ and in those cases it is in the interests of the state to insure the ultimate punishment is equitable. For that reason I feel that if you intentionally take a life, you should essentially forfeit any meaningful enjoyment of the rest of your own life. I’m opposed to execution but I fully support a person being locked in a cell 23 hours a day with little creature comforts until the moment they die. I am totally unconcerned with the logistics or cost of that, because it is a necessary thing to provide equitable results and is a key component of justice. Going back to the issue of deterrence I will point out that until the early 20th century there were many many crimes that carried the death sentence. Even repeated stealing would earn a hanging in England at one point, and this justice was executed swiftly and publicly for all to see. You see it going back to the pre-Medieval period and into ancient history, even relatively petty criminals were given extreme punishments. Since there wasn’t a system for the permanent housing of convicted criminals until the 19th century the punishments tended to be vicious corporal punishments like flogging or mutilation, or execution. The executions were carried out so widely and so certainly that it was totally different than our current system where only an extremely small percentage of the worst criminals will be condemned to death and then only some of those so condemned will ever be actually put to death. Yet all evidence suggests executioners in the ancient world up to the early industrial world were busy individuals. This is because even the most draconian punishments isn’t deterrence because most criminals don’t plan on getting caught and because they feel the risk is worth the reward of their actions. Or in the case of some they have some sort of innate character or psychological flaw that makes their criminality an almost intrinsic part of who they are. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/110 "2009-11-12T18:01:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is not just the incident of getting a painful death, it is knowing about it and facing it as it comes closer and closer. It must be horrible to count down day after day, then minute after minute until the day comes. I wonder how much worse it is when you are innocent? Very few innocent people are executed in the United States; and I don’t find the personal anguish of those awaiting execution to be compelling at all. I’m reminded of the execution of Richard Hickock and Perry Smith (the criminals who killed the Clutter family, the crime was the basis of Truman Capote’s book _In Cold Blood_); those two had to sit and wait for the day when they were hanged, which must have been terrible for them. However, how terrible was it for Bonnie Clutter, laying disabled in her bedroom, knowing the two men were in the house, and hearing one shotgun blast for each of her two children and then finally hearing the men come to her room to kill her? Most people that are executed in the United States are monsters and are _not an object of sympathy_. The discipline is you must have compassion for all man, but that doesn’t mean I have to or will sympathize or empathize with people like John Allen Muhammad. I don’t revel in the execution of monsters like him nor do I think they are morally acceptable actions, you can’t justify that which is immoral simply because of the immorality of the person who is the target of your action. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/111 "2009-11-12T18:21:23Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Those who are charged with administering the death penalty always describe it as clean and easy. The reality is often quite different. Electrocution was always described at quick and clean. It was proven not to be. Gas chambers had the same problem. They often were ugly and not as they said it would be. Why do we believe what they say now? Does it make it a little easier for death penalty fans? I understand if you need to convince yourself of how clean it is. Your internet psychic abilities have failed you. You understand nothing. If it were up to me he would be hanged or specifically in his case, shot. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/112 "2009-11-16T00:39:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, it’s hard for me to think of a good reason to deny a woman an abortion, short of something ridiculous like the death of the fetus setting off a big bomb somewhere ( sort of the pregnancy version of _Speed_ ). But that’s still not “absolute”. Nor is it absolute in the sense of being a law of physics or some such. It’s just that the fetus is a lump of tissue, and the woman is a person and there aren’t many plausible situations where the needs of a lump of tissue override the desires of an actual person. > > As for killing people, I’m no pacifist. As I said; my main objection to the death penalty is that I don’t trust the government to kill the right people, and leave the innocents alone. Is not saying innocent people shouldn’t be killed absolute morality? > [@Marley23](#): > > There’s no absolute justice and morality, but the weird thing here is that you think a government can reliably dispense it. Dude, the death penalty nowadays is almost like working on a scientific theory, months long trial, dozens of appeals, several investigation, and so on so yes I do trust the US government to execute the right people 99.99999999999% of the time. > [@gonzomax](#): > > I worked with a guy whose daughter was killed by Bundy. Bundy’s death did not bring her back. He did not feel better when Bundy died . He suffered the rest of his life. > Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. > Thou shalt not kill. “Thou shalt not kill” can be interperted as “Thous shalt not murder”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/113 "2009-11-16T00:59:32Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Dude, the death penalty nowadays is almost like working on a scientific theory, months long trial, dozens of appeals, several investigation, and so on so yes I do trust the US government to execute the right people 99.99999999999% of the time. Ahhh yes, the U.S. government, eleven orders of magnitude more competent than the [state of illinois](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Clemency_and_commutations) :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/114 "2009-11-17T03:45:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Is not saying innocent people shouldn’t be killed absolute morality? > > Dude, the death penalty nowadays is almost like working on a scientific theory, months long trial, dozens of appeals, several investigation, and so on so yes I do trust the US government to execute the right people 99.99999999999% of the time. > > “Thou shalt not kill” can be interperted as “Thous shalt not murder”. Only if you want to . What does that change? The state will murder in your name. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/115 "2009-11-17T05:13:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Only if you want to . What does that change? The state will murder in your name. Murder is illegal killing. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/116 "2009-11-17T05:24:47Z")
here’s a poll on what to do with the prisoner. am curious what the results will be - [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=540287](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=540287) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/117 "2009-11-17T14:08:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I thought you were an atheist. > > Besides, Exodus 21:12 says - > This is like arguing we shouldn’t put kidnappers in prison, or make thieves pay fines. > > Regards, > Shodan There is nothing heinous about prison or fines. Homicide is heinous. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/118 "2009-11-17T14:44:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There is nothing heinous about prison or fines. Homicide is heinous. According to the Old Testament, which is what we were discussing, the death penalty in cases of murder is not heinous - it is required. Feel free to produce a cite from the Old or New Testaments that says otherwise. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/119 "2009-11-23T01:05:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Only if you want to . What does that change? The state will murder in your name. Judicial slaying in response to the crime of the executed is different from murdering someone out of anger, money, or enjoyment. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/120 "2009-11-23T01:34:13Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Judicial slaying in response to the crime of the executed is different from murdering someone out of anger, money, or enjoyment. Not in my book. Murder is wrong. A state that allows murder is wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078.md?page=7)