# DC Sniper to be executed tonight **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078 "2009-11-10T18:54:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/141 "2009-11-25T06:55:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Does that go for the Taliban as well? So long as the Taliban soldiers don’t commit atrocities, sure. Merely taking up arms isn’t an atrocity. An exception might be made for someone like John Lindh, who, as a US citizen, was liable to prosecution for taking up arms against the US. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/142 "2009-11-25T12:39:38Z")
Then we are in complete agreement. There is no inconsistency between opposing the death penalty and supporting lethal force by the military. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/143 "2009-11-25T17:08:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then we are in complete agreement. There is no inconsistency between opposing the death penalty and supporting lethal force by the military. There’s no necessary inconsistency, no. But I don’t think anyone was saying there was. However, like people said, you can’t say, "the government shouldn’t kill people (or in your phrasing “commit premeditated homicide”) and also say, “It’s ok to kill enemy soldiers”. There is an inconsistency there. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/144 "2009-11-25T19:23:08Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > There’s no necessary inconsistency, no. But I don’t think anyone was saying there was. However, like people said, you can’t say, "the government shouldn’t kill people (or in your phrasing “commit premeditated homicide”) and also say, “It’s ok to kill enemy soldiers”. There is an inconsistency there. I don’t see it that way. We have already established the fundamental difference between a prisoner sentenced to death, and a combatant in war. On that basis, I see no inconsistency. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/145 "2009-11-25T19:35:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t see it that way. We have already established the fundamental difference between a prisoner sentenced to death, and a combatant in war. On that basis, I see no inconsistency. Because your argument isn’t “The government shouldn’t commit premeditated homicide”, as you had originally stated. Your argument is “The government shouldn’t commit premeditated homicide unless doing so is incidental to some other purpose”. IOW, you’ve argued that it’s ok for the goverment to kill people if they have a good reason, but that when they execute people, they don’t have a good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/146 "2009-11-25T19:50:43Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Because your argument isn’t “The government shouldn’t commit premeditated homicide”, as you had originally stated. Your argument is “The government shouldn’t commit premeditated homicide unless doing so is incidental to some other purpose”. IOW, you’ve argued that it’s ok for the goverment to kill people if they have a good reason, but that when they execute people, they don’t have a good reason. I don’t see lethal force on the battlefield as premeditated. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/147 "2009-11-25T20:14:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t see lethal force on the battlefield as premeditated. You mean, when the government sends troops to the battlefield, they don’t expect those troops to fire at the enemy? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/148 "2009-11-25T22:05:35Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > You mean, when the government sends troops to the battlefield, they don’t expect those troops to fire at the enemy? They are prepared to fire at the enemy. But if they can take and hold postions without killing anyone, they have achieved their mission. They do not premeditate how many must die before they take the battlefield. Being prepared for that eventuality is not premeditation. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/149 "2009-11-25T22:10:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There is nothing a convict on death row can do to prevent the state from exercising the ultimate penalty. That is not particularly unique to the death penalty - there is nothing a convicted bank robber can do to prevent the state from locking him up either. Not to mention that the notion that there is “nothing a convict on death row can do” to prevent his execution is ridiculous on the face of it. There are all kinds of things, from the appeals process to appealing for clemency. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/150 "2009-11-25T22:23:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not to mention that the notion that there is “nothing a convict on death row can do” to prevent his execution is ridiculous on the face of it. There are all kinds of things, from the appeals process to appealing for clemency. OK, I was imprecise. There is nothing a convict can do that has the outcome certainty of a combatant who lays down his arms. Yes, he might win an appeal, or receive clemency; but those are still very dependent on the legal system. A combatant who lays down his arms is a prisoner of war, and by international law, must be treated as one. I still maintain that being against the death penalty on the grounds that it is premeditated homicide is not inconsistent with supporting lethal force on the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/151 "2009-11-25T22:50:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > OK, I was imprecise. There is nothing a convict can do that has the outcome certainty of a combatant who lays down his arms. How common is it that a person who pleads guilty gets the death penalty? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/152 "2009-11-26T00:27:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Being prepared for that eventuality is not premeditation. That’s pretty much the definition of premeditation. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/153 "2009-11-26T02:26:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How common is it that a person who pleads guilty gets the death penalty? Since we are talking about people who already have been sentenced to death, I don’t see how that is relevant. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > That’s pretty much the definition of premeditation. So if a cop surprises an armed robber and shoots him in an exchange of gunfire, that is premeditated? The cop was prepared for it, but had formed no intent to kill anyone. Neither has the soldier before getting in a firefight. Preparation is not premeditation. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078/154 "2009-11-26T02:29:29Z")
Yeah, I have to go along with **Fear Itself** on this one. Unless you’re talking an assassin-type scenario, soldiers are not specifically setting out to kill anyone in particular, especially not as long as the other side gets out of the way. And the other side would just as soon do you as you them anyway, so self-defense comes into play. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dc-sniper-to-be-executed-tonight/517078.md?page=7)