# DC's Identity Crisis Ongoing Thread (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 16, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100 "2004-08-16T17:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/201 "2004-11-19T22:49:10Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I prefer the psycho-spouse theory m’self, (and the last few pages make it seem VERY likely that it’s either Ray or Jean) but I have to admit the big sticking point is how did Jean get a white-dwarf suit? (Granted there was that whole “I’ve got your patents” thing in issue one, and the two clues–her shrinking through the phone and the noose/cell-phone thing help, but still, if it turns out to be her, he’s got some ‘splainin’ to do.) The thing is, she doesn’t NEED the patents in order to use the white dwarf technology. If something is patented, then the technical details are publicly disclosed. Ergo, if Ray Palmer’s shrinking technology is patented, then its implementation is no big secret. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/202 "2004-11-19T22:54:43Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > The thing is, she doesn’t NEED the patents in order to use the white dwarf technology. If something is patented, then the technical details are publicly disclosed. Ergo, if Ray Palmer’s shrinking technology is patented, then its implementation is no big secret. But (1) did either of them specifically say any of the patents were on the shrinking tech? He’s probably developed other devices, applications and theories over the years and (2) not everybody can successfully shrink. Only recently has Ray even been able to advance that tech to the point where anybody could shrink for even a limited time. Jean has, however successfully shrunk in the past. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/203 "2004-11-19T23:02:23Z")
The point is that her ownership of Ray Palmer’s patents is irrelevant. If the shrinking technology was patented, then this information is publicly accessible. Owning the patents gives her absolutely no advantage. On the other hand, if the patents had nothing to do with the shrinking technology, then the patent ownership is STILL irrelevant. That is, owning the patents on Ray’s non-shrinking technology would not be any indication of her guilt or innocence in this crime. ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/204 "2004-11-19T23:08:24Z")
Whatever will we do next month after we don’t have this to argue about anymore? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/205 "2004-11-19T23:34:57Z")
> [@cbawlmer](#): > > Whatever will we do next month after we don’t have this to argue about anymore? 😉 Probably rant and gripe about what a ripoff the actual solution to the mystery was, and explain at length how we could have done it better. At least, that’s what I have marked on my calendar. And does it even matter if Ray Palmer’s shrinking technology is patented? If I recall correctly, the Atom used white dwarf star material to alter his size…so even if the plans are public knowledge, only those people who have access to exotic stellar matter could reproduce the effect. Of course, for the purposes of the question at hand, that narrows it down to just about everyone in the superhuman community…heck, even Snapper Carr probably has some stashed away in his junk drawer. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/206 "2004-11-20T00:07:18Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > The point is that her ownership of Ray Palmer’s patents is irrelevant. > > If the shrinking technology was patented, then this information is publicly accessible. Owning the patents gives her absolutely no advantage. > > On the other hand, if the patents had nothing to do with the shrinking technology, then the patent ownership is STILL irrelevant. That is, owning the patents on Ray’s non-shrinking technology would not be any indication of her guilt or innocence in this crime. The relevance is in the suggestion that at least part of her motive could be resentment toward Ray for his fame and her feelings that she is in his shadow. Owning patents on his work, whether advantageous to her or not, would simply be a constant reminder that she is forever to be “the Atom’s ex-wife.” Her request for Ray to come by to sign some papers at a particular time put him in her office within minutes of Sue’s death. At the same time it appeared that she had been there for some time and he had just arrived, and had time to commit the crime before briefly heading home first so the call would be traced back to his own place. So, the suspicion would end up directed at Ray not at Jean. But, if Jean has access to one of Ray’s spare belts she could have used it to get to Sue, then when Sue used her signal device to call Ralph, Jean would ride the wave out and then make her way to her office. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/207 "2004-11-20T00:09:36Z")
Oh, and the other point I forgot to mention is that Ray may not have patented the shrinking tech at all, prefering to keep it to himself until it’s perfected for general use. In that case, it might not be so readily available except to those close to Ray. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/208 "2004-11-20T00:20:53Z")
> [@photopat](#): > > The relevance is in the suggestion that at least part of her motive could be resentment toward Ray for his fame and her feelings that she is in his shadow. Owning patents on his work, whether advantageous to her or not, would simply be a constant reminder that she is forever to be “the Atom’s ex-wife.” As far as motives go, that is REALLY a huge stretch. Heck, if resentment is the issue, then Ray’s exploits in the newspapers should be more than adequate to fuel those negative feelings. It is simply ridiculous to say that she felt resentment toward her ex-husband because (a) _she_ had ownership of his patents, (b) these were reminders of his enormous success, and (c) that this somehow pushed her into a murderous rage. As far as motives go, that stretches credibility far beyond the breaking point. And if resentment were the issue, then why did she offer to sign ownership of the patents back to Ray? I do agree that Ray probably didn’t patent the shrinking technology. As I said, this would necessitate a public disclosure of how this technology can be duplicated. As I keep emphasizing though, the point is that Jean Loring’s ownership of these patents is simply irrelevant to the crime at hand, for reasons already elucidated. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/209 "2004-11-20T00:23:34Z")
Actually, I’m no longer convinced about the “Psycho-Spouse” theory, much as I like it. I just reread the whole series, and noticed two or three things. 1. Baby Boomer’s dad is Barry’s body, Cap. Boomerang’s mind when Barry and Boomer were body swapped (see issue 1). I assume the “quick aging thing” that made Impulse grow up fast happened here too. It would also tie into the whole body swap/mind control theme. 2. Whodunnit? I’m sure of this much–Ray is possessed and Dr. Light is involved. (see Dr. Light’s smile during that three page sequence in issue 6 and compare it to Ray’s smile at the very end of the issue–it’s exactly the same smile, ergo, it’s Dr. Light in Ray’s body.) I strongly suspect the Top’s involved too but I can’t figure out how. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/210 "2004-11-20T00:45:55Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Actually, I’m no longer convinced about the “Psycho-Spouse” theory, much as I like it. I just reread the whole series, and noticed two or three things. > > 1. Baby Boomer’s dad is Barry’s body, Cap. Boomerang’s mind when Barry and Boomer were body swapped (see issue 1). I assume the “quick aging thing” that made Impulse grow up fast happened here too. It would also tie into the whole body swap/mind control theme. > > 2. Whodunnit? I’m sure of this much–Ray is possessed and Dr. Light is involved. (see Dr. Light’s smile during that three page sequence in issue 6 and compare it to Ray’s smile at the very end of the issue–it’s exactly the same smile, ergo, it’s Dr. Light in Ray’s body.) I strongly suspect the Top’s involved too but I can’t figure out how. > > Fenris Fenris, I’ll grant that my reasoning is stretched, possibly beyond the breaking point, but then, it usually is. I disagree about Lil Boomer though. Remember that Bart’s fast aging was out of control and would have aged him to death in a short time if it weren’t for Wally. I doubt the new kid would have had any better luck. Also, I’m not sure you can tell so much from a smile. Particularly not when most of the male characters look alike anyway. I still think it’s Jean, and my reasoning, while flawed, may be right. This is a comic book after all. Rationality was pawned a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Daniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/211 "2004-11-20T16:02:38Z")
I don’t think comic characters having the same smile can really be a hint. As far as I can tell, all comic characters look alike when drawn by the same artist (for example, is there a single woman drawn by Michael Turner who does not have thong straps clearly visible above her low-riding jeans?) I have a new theory: I think the killer is The Spectre. I know very little about the Spectre, so this theory may be fairly easy to shoot down, but here’s my thinking: The Spectre, who is all about vengeance, won’t get involved on Jean’s behalf, perhaps because her death was supposed to happen? Perhaps this is some cosmic payback for the heroes ‘playing God’ with the villains’ minds? And I think the footprint thing is possible with Green Lantern powers. Did Hal keep his powers when he became the Spectre? Also, for my own education, what happened to the last Spectre before Hal took over? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/212 "2004-11-20T16:05:58Z")
Since Hal is going to be re-instated as GL, that seems unlikely. Besides, the Spectre may be into vengeance, but he’s not into framing other people for his acts. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/213 "2004-11-20T17:08:45Z")
My Points [ul] [li]In the Silver Age, the Atom was shown altering/erasing memories by entering the brain & re-wiring neurons.[/li][li]Who is the father of Sue’s unborn baby? It doesn’t necessarily have to be Ralph.[/li][li]Not all pregnancies are desired. Or voluntary. [/li][li]Not all intercourse is consensual.[/li][li]And Sue wouldn’t necessarily remember anything. She might think it was Ralph’s kid.[/li][li]DNA tests reveal all. Watch Doctor Midnight in the lab, not the Bat.[/li][/ul] You can all tell where I’m going with this. An inside job. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/214 "2004-11-20T17:17:16Z")
When is the last issue supposed to hit the stores? I look to this thread to know when to look for it, but that might be dangerous since it’s an “open spoiler” thread. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/215 "2004-11-20T17:55:36Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > When is the last issue supposed to hit the stores? I look to this thread to know when to look for it, but that might be dangerous since it’s an “open spoiler” thread. The last issue is set to be released on December 15th. I don’t think you have to worry about spoilers in this thread. Firstly because info about this series has been kept remarkably tight (unlike some other series: I had “Hush” spoiled for me before the last issue came out), and secondly because I think we’re sticking to open spoilers only concerning issues of IC that are already out. That is a good point though. If IC is spoiled for me before I get my hands on #7, I will be royally pissed. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/216 "2004-11-20T18:22:06Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > That is a good point though. If IC is spoiled for me before I get my hands on #7, I will be royally pissed. Then I guess I shouldn’t tell you that it turns out it was Matter Eater Lad all along. Seriously, though, I think it’s got to be Ray, and he’s either got to be possessed or have developed a split personality or something. Even if the footprints in Sue’s brain were a frame-up, that wouldn’t explain the crazy look on Ray’s face at the end of the last issue. The only way Ray isn’t the killer is if that wasn’t really Ray in that panel, but someone disguised as him. But I think it much more likely that it is Ray, but he’s either possessed or brainwashed. We’ve heard enough of his inner thoughts that I don’t think he could have just gone mad, unless, as I said, it’s some sort of split personality thing. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/217 "2004-11-20T18:30:39Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > The last issue is set to be released on December 15th. I don’t think you have to worry about spoilers in this thread. Firstly because info about this series has been kept remarkably tight (unlike some other series: I had “Hush” spoiled for me before the last issue came out), and secondly because I think we’re sticking to open spoilers only concerning issues of IC that are already out. > > That is a good point though. If IC is spoiled for me before I get my hands on #7, I will be royally pissed. Thanks. What I worry about is that I’ll open the thead to the first post (the day the last issue comes out), and the first thing I see is "Well, I was wrong, the murderer was actually GLEEK, THE WONDER-MONKEY!!! ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/218 "2004-11-20T18:46:53Z")
Gleek was the SPACE Monkey. Wonderdog was the, er, wonderdog. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/219 "2004-11-20T19:03:05Z")
No, he only called himself that to throw you off his murdering monkey-trail. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/220 "2004-11-20T19:52:57Z")
:smack: Of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100.md?page=12)