# DC's Identity Crisis Ongoing Thread (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 16, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100 "2004-08-16T17:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/101 "2004-09-20T01:17:53Z")
Thanks for mentioning that stuff from IC#1, Askia. I don’t have my copy at school with me, so I’m not able to look back on it for stuff like this. One minor nitpick: > [@](#): > > For “tall” and the hat, you’d have to use Jean Loring’s testimony. Jean doesn’t mention anything about a hat that I can find, and in her flashback we can see the would-be murderer’s hair (also that he’s wearing a trenchcoat) > [@](#): > > No comment yet by how fishy it is that Zatanna allegedly performed mindwipes in a league with a telepath for a member… That is kind of strange, but it didn’t really look like it was that hard for her to do. She only had trouble when she had to actually change someone’s personality. Also, I think someone else in this thread mentioned that J’onn wasn’t an active JLA member at the time (of course, I also think Fenris said that that incarnation of the League never actually existed, so who knows). Another thought: Isn’t Chronos primarily an Atom villain? “We’ll still win.” Him and Jean, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/102 "2004-09-20T01:30:04Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Yeah, but then the rest of us would be complaining about bad writing. 😉 Lol! Actually, I’d argue that it’s ok for the Joker to have the “Whatever the plot demands” skill. > [@](#): > > Hmm. For some reason, I thought the Thunderbolt couldn’t kill, either. I also ask you to remember that 5th Dimensional entities are empowered by hyper-advanced science that appears to be magic, not true magic. 😉 I seriously can’t remember Mxy or the T-Bolt ever interacting with a spirit that had passed on… The only place we’ve seen the T-Bolt have a hissyfit over killing was in the absolutely non-cannon (but wonderful) Golden Age (it _can’t_ be cannon–way too many character violations plus a few major continuity errors…it still rocked though). Also, Myx (Earth One) brought back the spirit of Jor-El and Lara once to bug Superboy (IIRC). I also seem to recall a Legion story with the decendant of Myx who snuffed a bunch of Legion members then brough them back (I could be misremembering) > [@](#): > > As I recall, Booster’s time machine was one of Rip Hunter’s. Most of the rest stand as mentioned, but… Wasn’t it a Legion time-sphere? > [@](#): > > Kyle’s ring can’t do some of the things previous rings could do. I’m still curious about John Stewart’s ring - if it’s the old can’t-work-against-yellow, has-a-huge-database-inside GL Corps ring, or a copy of Kyle’s. I’ve lost track of who has what kind of ring to be honest–but John’s always thought of the ring as a tool, not “the most powerful weapon in the universe” and John has _seen_ Hal do the “TV screen that shows recent events” thing, I think. > [@](#): > > Funny. In two issues, JSA will be dealing with Mid-Nite’s autopsy of Sue. So they’re a little behind. Really? I stand corrected! 🙂 > [@](#): > > Dunno. Metron’s kind of a loose cannon… Yeah, but when push comes to shove he wants to stay vaguely alligned with New Genesis (as looesly as possible). I _know_ if Highfather ordered him he do it (though to be honest, Highfather wouldn’t be involved in something this low-level). I’m not as confident that he’d absolutely obey a direct order from Tachyon or Mr. Miracle (although I suspect he would, if only to keep his ties). > [@](#): > > I mean - why don’t they use time travel to solve every single murder they deal with? Probably because it’s pretty darn risky. But it’s _not_-you can’t co-exist at the same time as you already exist, you become a ghost (and we’ve seen that effect post-Crisis in Animal Man) that’s essentially in a Phantom Zone situation–you can watch but you can’t affect things. The fact is, as long as the time-pool and the cosmic treadmill are around, there’s no reason why they shouldn’t be used a lot more frequently than they are. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/103 "2004-09-20T02:55:34Z")
**shy guy.** Are you sure that’s hair on our suspect’s head? They make it a point to show the suspect being bald when Wonder Woman visits him in prison. Then again, in the DCU I’m so conditioned to seeing a hat and trenchcoat worn together (unless yu’re John Constantine) I might be seeing things. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/104 "2004-09-20T03:27:17Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **shy guy.** Are you sure that’s hair on our suspect’s head? They make it a point to show the suspect being bald when Wonder Woman visits him in prison. Then again, in the DCU I’m so conditioned to seeing a hat and trenchcoat worn together (unless yu’re John Constantine) I might be seeing things. Yep, that’s definitely hair. It looks vaguely like Nightwing’s, which some people are using the back up the Nightwing theory. Also, the guy they visit in prison wasn’t the guy who attacked Jean. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/105 "2004-09-20T03:44:47Z")
I was on this J’onn-Is-The-Killer kick for mostly shits and giggles, but I really, really, really hate that the suspect didn’t have on a freaking hat. Screw the flames, screw the phasing, screw motive --I’m nearly ready to abandon my theory on the “no hat” basis alone. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/106 "2004-09-20T05:43:23Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Jakeem doesn’t know the full potential of his Thunderbolt yet, it’s likely. Besides, when it comes to investigations, the Thunderbolt has historically been less than useful. > > That’s because Johnny was an idiot. Says you. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/107 "2004-09-20T11:01:23Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Says you. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/108 "2004-09-20T12:52:48Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The only place we’ve seen the T-Bolt have a hissyfit over killing was in the absolutely non-cannon (but wonderful) Golden Age (it _can’t_ be cannon–way too many character violations plus a few major continuity errors…it still rocked though). Also, Myx (Earth One) brought back the spirit of Jor-El and Lara once to bug Superboy (IIRC). I also seem to recall a Legion story with the decendant of Myx who snuffed a bunch of Legion members then brough them back (I could be misremembering) Golden Age - that’s probably where I’ve gotten the idea from. Not familiar with that Superboy story, but I’ll take your word for it. The only idea I have as to why the T-Bolt hasn’t been used, then, is that Jakeem’s still too inexperienced with it. > [@](#): > > Wasn’t it a Legion time-sphere? Hm. I could’ve sworn it was Rip Hunter’s timesphere, stolen from a museum - but I’m not 100% certain. I do seem to recall that Booster had a Legion Flight Ring though… > [@](#): > > I’ve lost track of who has what kind of ring to be honest–but John’s always thought of the ring as a tool, not “the most powerful weapon in the universe” and John has _seen_ Hal do the “TV screen that shows recent events” thing, I think. My point was that John’s ring may now be like Kyle’s - more powerful overall, but without some of the nifty extra features - like the old auto-Forcefield that would crop up to protect a wielder in danger - bet Kyle would’ve liked that against Deathstroke! > [@](#): > > Really? I stand corrected! 🙂 The continuity is definitely weird on this crossover. My source of info on the JSA stuff is the [DcComics.com](http://DcComics.com) website - you can read synopses of issues about 2-3 months ahead. > [@](#): > > Yeah, but when push comes to shove he wants to stay vaguely alligned with New Genesis (as looesly as possible). I _know_ if Highfather ordered him he do it (though to be honest, Highfather wouldn’t be involved in something this low-level). I’m not as confident that he’d absolutely obey a direct order from Tachyon or Mr. Miracle (although I suspect he would, if only to keep his ties). Oh, come on. You know he’d make up some vague excuse about temporal anomalies keeping him from getting near the event in question, lecture the asking entity about ‘trifling with time’, and then go polish his Moebius chair. > [@](#): > > But it’s _not_-you can’t co-exist at the same time as you already exist, you become a ghost (and we’ve seen that effect post-Crisis in Animal Man) that’s essentially in a Phantom Zone situation–you can watch but you can’t affect things. Another reason I need to pick up more of Morrison’s Animal Man run. But different methods of time travel work in different ways. The next arc of Superman/Batman deals with some time travellers who change their past - but it could be argued that they don’t already exist in the time period in question. So another example - in the Flash - Wally’s run-in (ba-dumbum) with the Black Flash a while back - part of that arc lead him to the 30th century - where the Black Flash killed Barry isntead, screwing up the past by preventing Barry from destroying the Anti-Monitor’s cannon. Wally went back in time to try and take Barry’s place in the Crisis (it didn’t work - he eventually had to go back to the 30th century to save Barry) - but he was affecting events in a time period in which he already existed - AND the timeline was changing around him as a result. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/109 "2004-09-20T13:11:25Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Hm. I could’ve sworn it was Rip Hunter’s timesphere, stolen from a museum - but I’m not 100% certain. I do seem to recall that Booster had a Legion Flight Ring though… Booster has a Legion Flight Ring and one of Brainiac 5’s force field belts. I’m pretty sure he used Rip Hunter’s machine to get to the 30th century to … borrow … the gear. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/110 "2004-09-20T13:19:43Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Booster has a Legion Flight Ring and one of Brainiac 5’s force field belts. I’m pretty sure he used Rip Hunter’s machine to get to the 30th century to … borrow … the gear. Ahhh… that fits. The belt, I assume, was disassembled and built into his suit at some point? Because I thought the forcefield was sourced there, at the time Doomsday destroyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/111 "2004-09-20T13:33:04Z")
There was no trip to the 30th century by Booster. IIRC, the Legion time sphere, belt and flight ring were all in the Museum Booster worked in. He stole these and ended up in the late 20th century to make his fortune. Meanwhile, in the 30th century, Brainiac becomes intrigued when he discovers his time machine has been unearthed from a late 20th century archeological dig. Brainiac, Chameleon boy and Ultra Boy all travel to the 20th century to investigate the near time paradox of how a 30th century time machine ended up 1,000 years in the past. There’s lots of fun with mistaken identities, fused force fields, presidential assassination attempts by shapechanging killers and Ronald Reagan flubbing Booster’s name. Brainiac ends up leaving a Legion flight ring, his forcefield belt, power cartiges and one of three time bubbles so that they can all be found by the museum Booster ends up working in, so that Boster can steal them and fulfill his destiny. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/112 "2004-09-20T13:34:43Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The only place we’ve seen the T-Bolt have a hissyfit over killing was in the absolutely non-cannon (but wonderful) Golden Age … Actually, he also had a “hissyfit” in the _Crisis in a Thunderbolt Dimension_ storyline, when the Earth-One Johnny Thunder commanded him to kill Starman and the Black Canary. He resisted mightily, but was on the verge of finally succumbing when the Earth-Two JT seized control again. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/113 "2004-09-20T14:45:10Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > There was no trip to the 30th century by Booster. > > IIRC, the Legion time sphere, belt and flight ring were all in the Museum Booster worked in. He stole these and ended up in the late 20th century to make his fortune. Meanwhile, in the 30th century, Brainiac becomes intrigued when he discovers his time machine has been unearthed from a late 20th century archeological dig. Brainiac, Chameleon boy and Ultra Boy all travel to the 20th century to investigate the near time paradox of how a 30th century time machine ended up 1,000 years in the past. There’s lots of fun with mistaken identities, fused force fields, presidential assassination attempts by shapechanging killers and Ronald Reagan flubbing Booster’s name. Brainiac ends up leaving a Legion flight ring, his forcefield belt, power cartiges and one of three time bubbles so that they can all be found by the museum Booster ends up working in, so that Boster can steal them and fulfill his destiny. _sigh_ Outdone in my poor recollection of 15 year old comic minutae. I stand in awe of your trivial knowledge. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/114 "2004-09-20T14:54:36Z")
Ah-HA! It was Rip Hunter’s. [Cite.](http://omega.animefringe.com/riphunter/tmannotations.html) ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/115 "2004-09-20T15:51:51Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > “We’ll still win.” Him and Jean, perhaps? I think people are reading too much into Chronos’s comments. I think they just pertain to the game of Risk that the baddies are playing. Funny, but meaningless, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/116 "2004-09-20T19:12:59Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Ah-HA! It was Rip Hunter’s. > > [Cite.](http://omega.animefringe.com/riphunter/tmannotations.html) DAMMIT. I was so sure I remembered it was Brainiac 5’s time machine! I wish I still had my BOOSTER GOLD collection but gave most of them away to students. **D\_Odds,** do I still get a little hero worship? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/117 "2004-09-20T19:17:28Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > DAMMIT. I was so sure I remembered it was Brainiac 5’s time machine! I wish I still had my BOOSTER GOLD collection but gave most of them away to students. **D\_Odds,** do I still get a little hero worship? In your own defense, the Legion was closely involved with the events, so it would be easy for one to half-remember it being a Brainy Original. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/118 "2004-09-21T13:41:42Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > DAMMIT. I was so sure I remembered it was Brainiac 5’s time machine! I wish I still had my BOOSTER GOLD collection but gave most of them away to students. **D\_Odds,** do I still get a little hero worship? You are now a FALLEN Hero, **Askia** , and from this point forward, all comic trivia statements from you will need to be verified ;j ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/119 "2004-09-21T14:31:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I think people are reading too much into Chronos’s comments. I think they just pertain to the game of Risk that the baddies are playing. Funny, but meaningless, I think. I’m not so sure. He doesn’t just say it in IC#4, he says it in IC#3 (or 2, I can’t remember), too, when he’s onboard the satellite. He says something like “why would I be here if I didn’t know that we won?” I think Metzler is maknig his inclusion subtle and making him seem a little nuts, but I think it’s going to be significant. ---
**Author:** ![Daniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100/120 "2004-09-23T01:22:28Z")
So… the new Flash comic is out, and all it seems to do is summarize Identity Crisis up to the point. It looks like the next issue is the one that’ll add to the story. But though I’m a Flash fan, I only read him on and off, and last time I read him his identity was publicly known. What’s this they’re saying about the Spectre and him being unknown now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dcs-identity-crisis-ongoing-thread-open-spoilers/260100.md?page=7)