# DDG ,what kind of friend are you? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2001, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793 "2001-11-16T19:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Redboss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@Redboss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redboss)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/21 "2001-11-18T11:41:09Z")
The hem of her garment once brushed against me and I’ve been a more coherent referencer ever since. In another thread I wrote a little poem for her. Which I now repeat. Striking his lyre, Redboss sings: “O Google-Goddess, Noble Duck, Please lead as we meander. Research, Enquire, Instruct, Inspire, And serve sauce to the gander.” Redgosling ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/22 "2001-11-18T16:34:40Z")
**grienie** , you need to do something about that chip on your shoulder, buddy. If you look hard enough for something to offend you, you’ll find it. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/23 "2001-11-18T20:09:10Z")
DDG, what kind of friend are you? A great one. You are courteous, funny, intelligent, and you can use Google better than a chimp can use his own dick. You use your time to help others, and to eradicate ignorance worldwide. **grienspace** , would you be opposed to a site that pointed out common flaws of fundamentalists if it was written by someone who didn’t actually know any? Because I would consider that site bullshit. DDG speaks from experience, and therefore is not spouting bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/24 "2001-11-18T20:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > You are courteous, funny, intelligent, and you can use Google better than a chimp can use his own dick. **DDG** If you don’t use this for your sig the next few months, then you get no respect from me. :D:D ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/25 "2001-11-18T21:55:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\ ***grienspace** , fundamentalism is a choice. Ethnicity is not. Your comparison is not valid. \*\* I forgot that important distinction when it is acceptable or not to denigrate a group. Very well then, is the following comparison valid? ## quote: ## Muslim Americans don’t really like to read, for one thing. They’re aren’t very good at “reading”. ## quote: ## When Muslim Americans do read, the only things they’re really comfortable reading are non-fiction. Easy non-fiction. ## quote: ## Muslim-Americans find it difficult to wrap their imaginations around fiction to begin with, > [@](#): > > _Derlith_ > grienspace, would you be opposed to a site that pointed out common flaws of fundamentalists if it was written by someone who didn’t actually know any? Because I would consider that site bullshit. DDG speaks from experience, and therefore is not spouting bullshit. American Christian fundamentalists have the same capabilities of reading as any other average American. For someone to represent themselves as an authority on the reading capability of these people because their friends are fundamentalists adds even more misplaced credence to this lie. Several months ago I challenged someone else to provide cites on the claim that the religious are less intelligent than the norm. I recall nothing particularly scholarly being presented, and the rest of this board quite content to let this stupid assertion stand. I challenge anyone to provide a cite that can back up **DDG’s** claim that Christian fundamentalists have less reading capability than other Americans. > [@](#): > > _Yue Han_ > Hey, grienspace, if I were your friend, and I described you as only comfortable at playing foosball in a noncompetitive, low-key setting, and not particularly good at it, would that offend you? No, because in our society, the lack of ability in a sport is hardly a social stigma. But if a friend of mine is on the internet telling her virtual friends that her real life friends and their ilk are somewhat dense, then I would doubt if I would want to carry on the friendship. > [@](#): > > _Yue Han_ > Any fundy friends of her’s wouldn’t care, because it’s true, they know it’s true, and they’re PROUD of it. Get it? There are people who are PROUD of the fact that they don’t like to read. They are the people she is talking about, and they wouldn’t be offended by what she said. How do you know that is true?! Because **DDG** says so? Your response here is exactly why I am so upset. You bought this bullshit on the sayso of someone who claims anecdotal credentials. The rigorous demand to provide cites to back up assertions so characteristic of this board is missing in this case. Well believe what you want to believe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/26 "2001-11-18T21:59:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > [ **grienspace** , would you be opposed to a site that pointed out common flaws of fundamentalists if it was written by someone who didn’t actually know any? Because I would consider that site bullshit. DDG speaks from experience, and therefore is not spouting bullshit. \*\* So you bought her assertion as well without backup. And this is about fighting ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/27 "2001-11-18T22:59:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*I forgot that important distinction when it is acceptable or not to denigrate a group. Very well then, is the following comparison valid? > > > [@](#): > > > > Muslim Americans don’t really like to read, for one thing. They’re aren’t very good at “reading”. > > > [@](#): > > > > When Muslim Americans do read, the only things they’re really comfortable reading are non-fiction. Easy non-fiction. > > > [@](#): > > > > Muslim-Americans find it difficult to wrap their imaginations around fiction to begin with, > > \*\* Now let’s compare these to the **DDG** quotes from the OP: > [@](#): > > Yeah, the general attitude towards all that “magic stuff” is, “Don’t even think about stuff like Ouija boards and tarot cards, let alone touch them or look at them, 'cause Satan can use that thought to lure you away down the Road to Hell. He’ll make you curious about it, and you’ll start doing research, and the next thing you know, you’ll be performing Black Masses…” From everythinng I know about fundementalists (and I am Christian though not fundie, so we’re clear on my POV here), this is the case. Many Christians feel this way. I see no bashing. And then there’s this post where you seem to grab the arguments listed above (bolding mine with my comments in italics): > [@](#): > > Er, Freyr, **many of my Fundie friends** have participated for many years in an all-out Disney boycott (because of Disney’s same-sex health insurance policy), so the point about “why don’t Fundies object to Disney cartoons?” doesn’t really hold. > > And anyway, **a lot of them** _(“them” meaning her friends, best as I can see)_ do object to Disney cartoons, because of the “magic” in them, because of the “fantasy” aspect. The Little Mermaid, the Beast, Pinocchio and the Blue Fairy, all of them…Also–how can I put this?–Harry Potter is a book (at least, it was a book first), and to **people with this mindset** _(again, seems to me she’s talking about her friends)_, books are threatening in a very subtle way, in a way that cartoons aren’t threatening. It’s hard to explain. **These people** _(need I say her friends again?)_ don’t really like to read, for one thing. They’re aren’t very good at “reading”. I don’t mean in a “literacy” sense, I mean in the sense of being happiest when settled in for the afternoon with a good book. They tend to view “bookish” types (like me) with suspicion. > > **When they do read** _(I’m still looking for evidence that she’s talking about a group larger than her friends)_, the only things they’re really comfortable reading are non-fiction. Easy non-fiction. They find it difficult to wrap their imaginations around fiction to begin with, and fiction dealing with subject matter that’s forbidden by the Bible is just terribly frightening to them, in a way that even a full-length cartoon about magic isn’t. Cartoons are for kids, and aren’t that scary. But “books” are intimidating, and a book about magic is doubly so. > > Does this make sense? It’s seems to me **DDG** is not talking about Fundies as a group, but the people she knows personally. You’re extrapolating this to her making comments about all fundies, just so you have a gripe to cling to. My BIL, a computer tech like me, doesn’t like to read anything outside modern science-fiction and fantasy (meaning anything from Tolkien to the present day). He thinks my non-stop reading of everything and anything to be odd. He doesn’t know why I’d want to read Homer and Shakespeare and Poe. He has difficulty wrapping his brain around that stuff and the same can be said for him as **DDG** says above about her friends. Am I bashing my own family now? No, I am saying what I know from conversations with my BIL. Am I saying this holds true for all computer techs or brothers-in-law? No, just the one I know. Wait, my BIL was in the Navy, as was my father - and my father also doesn’t like Homer and Shakespeare and Poe! Am I saying this is true for all Naval personell? Again, no. I’m stating what I know about the people I know. That seems to be all **DDG** is doing. You’re the one looking for a fight, **grienspace** , and in your mind extending her comments beyond her friends to encompass all fundies everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/28 "2001-11-19T00:16:43Z")
I’ve seen **DDG** refer to herself as a “Fightin’ Fundie”. And I’m also pretty sure that I recall **Triskadecamus** describe himself as being pretty close to a Fundamentalist. However, I don’t see in them any of the characteristics that seem (from other comments on this board) to be associated with Fundamentalism. But I am ignorant in these matters. So I wonder if someone can clarify what exactly defines a Fundamentalist, and - more specifically - what definition of Fundamentalist would include people like the abovenamed, but exclude others here (e.g. **Polycarp** ). Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/29 "2001-11-19T03:56:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > > [ **grienspace** , would you be opposed to a site that pointed out common flaws of fundamentalists if it was written by someone who didn’t actually know any? Because I would consider that site bullshit. DDG speaks from experience, and therefore is not spouting bullshit. \*\* > > So you bought her assertion as well without backup. And this is about fighting ignorance? \*\* No, I decided to trust someone I knew wouldn’t knowingly spread false information. I have no reason to doubt her or what she claims to know. Why? Because she has a good track record. I could not place the same trust in a site written by someone who admitted that they had no knowledge of fundamentalists. ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/30 "2001-11-19T04:09:01Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Any fundy friends of her’s wouldn’t care, because it’s true, they know it’s true, and they’re PROUD of it. Get it? There are people who are PROUD of the fact that they don’t like to read. They are the people she is talking about, and they wouldn’t be offended by what she said. > > How do you know that is true?! Because DDG says so? Your response here is exactly why I am so upset. You bought this bullshit on the sayso of someone who claims anecdotal credentials. No, dipshit, because I know people with this attitude as well. Your Muslim example is bullshit too. I don’t think you’re getting this, gobshite: **There is a branch of fundamentalism with an inherent distrust for and dislike for fiction in all forms.** It doesn’t have a specific name, but it is a recognizable subset of fundamentalism. An integral part of this philosophy is not reading recreationally, not liking to read in general, and being proud of ignorance. ‘Book-learning,’ as opposed to believing what you are told by a minister, is seen as a tool of Satan. And these are not things they hide. People who believe this _will tell you so_. They are proud of it because _they think they are right._ I know such people exist because I have met them. For many years my parents were them. There was NO fiction in my house until I started bringing it home from the library. I grew up reading encyclopedias. There isn’t any question that such people exist. The question is, are DDG friends such people? I don’t know where the hell you could possible find a cite about that. I think the only thing you COULD do would be to ask her. –John ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/31 "2001-11-19T15:11:15Z")
The sound that you are now _not_ hearing is **grienspace** exploding in a puff of logic. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/32 "2001-11-19T16:04:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > American Christian fundamentalists have the same capabilities of reading as any other average American. For someone to represent themselves as an authority on the reading capability of these people because their friends are fundamentalists adds even more misplaced credence to this lie. Several months ago I challenged someone else to provide cites on the claim that the religious are less intelligent than the norm. I recall nothing particularly scholarly being presented, and the rest of this board quite content to let this stupid assertion stand. I challenge anyone to provide a cite that can back up **DDG’s** claim that Christian fundamentalists have less reading capability than other Americans. And I challenge you to point out where DDG says taht Christian fundementalists have less reading capablity than other Americans. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose_ > So let’s not turn this into a Fundie-bashing thread, 'cause there are some of us out there who think that books are good, period. She specifically says that she is _not_ referring to _all_ fundementalists. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose_ > They’re aren’t very good at “reading”. I don’t mean in a “literacy” sense, I mean in the sense of being happiest when settled in for the afternoon with a good book. DDG is not saying that they (again, a subset of fundamentalists) are not _capable_ of reading; she says that while they _are_ literate, they do not enjoy that habit of reading. The most insulting thing DDG said, IMHO, was > [@](#): > > When they do read, the only things they’re really comfortable reading are non-fiction. Easy non-fiction. They find it difficult to wrap their imaginations around fiction . . . She accuses _some_ fundementalistss of a lack of imagination . . . which, seeing as how _some_ fundementalists seem to see Satan hiding behind every bush, is a bit ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/33 "2001-11-19T17:20:35Z")
Well, as long as this is at the top of the forum anyway… As it happens, Grienspace, there ARE cites for the whole “the Bible is the only book you’ll ever need” mindset. [http://home.aol.com/AVBibleTAB/av/gbook.htm](http://home.aol.com/AVBibleTAB/av/gbook.htm) > [@](#): > > By the greatest book, we mean a book that has outsold more than two times as many copies as any four books combined. So, when we talk about the greatest book ever printed upon this earth, we’re not talking about some work by Mao Tse Tung, or Karl Marx, or Einstein; or anything in the Harvard five-foot shelf of so-called classics. The greatest book ever printed on this earth by all odds, bar none, has been the King James 1611 Authorized Version Holy Bible! > So then this Holy Bible is by far the most outstanding book the world has ever seen. [http://www.users.on.net/mec/answers/\_1\_pro.htm](http://www.users.on.net/mec/answers/_1_pro.htm) > [@](#): > > It has infinitely superior teachings over any other book. > > The Bible has in it nothing but truth, while all other books have truth mixed with error, like jewels mixed with mud > The inexhaustible depth of the Bible. Most man-written books can be thoroughly understood and mastered in one or two readings. You can read the Bible over 100 times and still discover new, fresh, exciting and amazing truths. It comes from the mind of God. [http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/course/biblebks.html](http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/course/biblebks.html) > [@](#): > > No book is more worthy of study than the Authorised Version of the Holy Bible. It is, without a doubt, the real WORD OF GOD! and is infinitely superior to every other book in the world: simply because it’s author is the Creator of the mighty universe, Yahweh the Holy One of Israel. I am privileged to recommend it to the Internet Community. See HOLY BIBLE \<…/bible/index.html\> for a free copy. [http://www.ggmathew.com/bible.htm](http://www.ggmathew.com/bible.htm) > [@](#): > > It is self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. It is…a divine library of 66 books, some of considerable size and others no larger than a tract. These books include various forms of literature - history, biography, poetry, proverbial sayings, humns, letters, directions for elaborate ritualistic worship, laws, parables, riddles, allegories, prophecy, drama, and others. They embrace all manner of literary styles in human expression. > \ > > THE BIBLE contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s compass, the soldier’s sword, and the Christian’s charter…It should fill your memory, rule your heart… > Read it slowly, frequently, prayerfully, meditatively, searchingly, devotionally, and study it constantly, perseveringly, and industriously. Read it through and through until it becomes part of your being… So, in other words, according to this mindset, reading anything BUT the Bible is a complete waste of time. The Bible has all the literary styles you could ever want, plus it’ll save your soul. What more could you ask for? Harry Potter? Pfui. Reading Harry Potter won’t save your soul, that’s for sure… ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/34 "2001-11-19T18:54:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*(_orignally posted by Duck Duck Goose, quoted by grienspace_) They’re aren’t very good at “reading”. I don’t mean in a “literacy” sense, I mean in the sense of being happiest when settled in for the afternoon with a good book. \*\* So **grienspace** , where do you rank on the whole literacy thing? The above sentences, which you quoted in your OP, state specifically that **DDG** doesn’t think that fundies are less literate. You seem stuck on the “prove to me that fundies are less literate than the gen pop” idea, when you are the only one saying it! Buh-bye. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/35 "2001-11-19T20:06:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > So, in other words, according to this mindset, reading anything BUT the Bible is a complete waste of time. The Bible has all the literary styles you could ever want, plus it’ll save your soul. What more could you ask for? Harry Potter? Pfui. Reading Harry Potter won’t save your soul, that’s for sure… A quick review of your cites and quotes does not lead me to conclude that these people claim that books other than the bible are a waste of time. They claim that the bible is by far the best book ever…only. My challenge was to provide cites showing that fundies have less capability in reading fiction because they have limited imagination as well as your other claims which generally demean the reading capability of fundies… **EJsGirl** The two sentences you quoted don’t contadict her other statements that they have difficulty wrapping their imagination around fiction. Such an observation as this for a schoolchild would be of concern to a teacher I assure you. (Attention **Podkayne** ) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793/36 "2001-11-20T14:02:05Z")
**grienspace** , you are the densest person I’ve seen around here for a while. **DDG** STILL hasn’t “demean[ed] the reading **capability** of fundies”. Here’s what she said: > [@](#): > > These people don’t really like to read, for one thing. They’re aren’t very good at “reading”. I don’t mean in a “literacy” sense, I mean in the sense of being happiest when settled in for the afternoon with a good book. What does this all mean? That the people she is talking about don’t LIKE to read. It doesn’t make them happy. They would rather read the Bible. Not only that, they believe they should ONLY be reading the Bible. I’m under the impression that you’ve encountered less fundamentalists than you have fingers. I have been in many conversations with fundamentalists, and often times I will hear them say that their church says that they should only read the Bible. It’s not an entirely common sect, but it exists. I don’t understand why you can’t accept that fact. Maybe you just don’t like to admit when you’re wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ddg-what-kind-of-friend-are-you/93793.md?page=1)