DDT okay?

mok: Sorry, your straw man itself is a straw man. In the column, Cecil points out that many of Carson’s detractors are “right-wing conspiracy theorists”. The fact remains that much of the argument against the dangers of DDT come from people who are completely untrustworthy because they lump ALL environmental arguments into come sort of dittohead rant.

The correlation of hatemongers and DDT apologists is high. That doesn’t in and of itself say much about DDT, but it does tell you who you can safely ignore.

Actually, what Cecil said was:

But then the master himself concludes with "But it [DDT] remains an important tool, and in a time of rising global pestilence we shun it at our peril. " Obviously you are not implying that Cecil is a hatemonger or right-wing conspiracy theorist, so you will therefore agree that there are some points in favor of DDT usage which are not based purely on political affiliation.

Look, all I meant was that I don’t think it’s germane to bring things like Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond into this discussion.* It arouses the passions, to be sure, but it doesn’t add anything useful to the question of the situation with DDT. I agree that we can ignore right-wing crackpots with respect to DDT - but equally I believe we should ignore left-wing crackpots with respect to DDT as well. Much of the argument against the dangers DDT comes from right-wing crackpots, but not all of it. Likewise, much of the argument in favor of banning DDT comes from left-wing crackpots, but not all of it.

-mok
*personally, I don’t think Cecil should have brought LaRouche into the discussion either. It makes it sounds too much like an ad hominem as opposed to an argument on the merits. But, there you go.

The operant word there being “some”. In other words, there ARE points in favor of DDT usage that ARE based on political affiliation. Too many (and I’m not accusing you specifically) get all their science from Rush and Drudge.

While I don’t know what their voting record is on DDT, their record on environmental legislation is terrible. The world is a dirtier place because of right-wingers like them. And the world is less safe because of them.

Ah, the old “Everyone does it” defense. And, as usual, a terrible one (who should complain about straw men now, eh?). No left-wing crackpots were cited in Cecil’s article, and your implication is that Rachel Carson is one of them, and this is precisely what Cecil disproves. The fact remains that rabid hatemongering right-wingers are almost always in favor of DDT use, in denial about global warming, and desperately want to dump PCBs anywhere. It would be irresponsible to separate out this one issue from the larger issue of the environment.

I work for Pesticide Action Network, one of the organizations often charged with “bringing back malaria” by supporting the phase out of DDT. Like the chemical itself, it’s a tired argument that just doesn’t go away.

Here’s some things that Cecil missed in his column:

  • In the 1950s, an aggressive, global campaign was waged to eradicate malaria, with DDT the designated magic bullet. This valiant campaign waged by “malaria warriors” (this story was told well in the New Yorker article mentioned above) brought malaria levels down and saved millions of lives, a very good thing. But efforts were unsuccessful in so many places that the World Health Organization backed away from their goal of global eradication. In too many places, DDT didn’t work.

  • Far too little funding has been spent to find effective alternatives for malaria control. Yet alternatives do exist, and have helped many countries (Mexico, Vietnam and the Philippines are examples) to move away from dependence on DDT.

  • The international community is finally starting to seriously address malaria, and money is now being mobilized under a new treaty called the Stockholm Convention to combat malaria with alternatives that are not only safer than DDT, but also more effective.

Ultimately, a global phase out of DDT (which the Stockholm Convention calls for at some unspecified future date) is a good idea. We know more now about the dangers of DDT than we did when it was banned. It turns out that exposure in the womb to infinitesimal amounts of DDT (and its breakdown product DDE) can result in premature births, underweight babies, and reproductive problems later in life. Women with elevated DDT levels in their breastmilk can’t feed their babies as long as women without. More than 30 years after the phase out of DDT in the U.S., researchers are still finding the breakdown products of DDT throughout our food supply and in American mothers’ wombs.

So rather than warning that we “shun DDT at our peril,” why not call on the international community to hurry up with their promotion of safer alternatives?

A final note: We recently co-authored “DDT & Malaria: Answers to Common Questions” with international partners - those interested can find it at http://www.panna.org/campaigns/pops.html.

Cecil Adams,

Thanks for your efforts to address the very complex issue of DDT and malaria control in your column, “Was Rachel Carson a Fraud and is DDT Actually Safe for Humans?” (December 13, 2002.

I think you reach an appropriate conclusion that DDT has saved millions of lives and remains an important tool for malaria control, but as you reach that conclusion you convey a misleading impression that DDT is going to be banned under the Stockholm Convention on persistent organic pollutants (POPs).

The most important point that you didn’t share with your readers is that the POPs convention clearly and unambiguously allows the current continued use of DDT for malaria control. The treaty addresses DDT in a section separate from the sections on the other pollutants. The treaty basically allows any country that determines that it needs to use DDT to use it. All a country has to do is sign up on DDT Register maintained by the treaty Secretariat and to keep the Secretariat and the World Health Organization informed (every three years) on the amount of DDT used and its continuing need, if any.

The treaty does state a goal of “reducing and ultimately eliminating the use of DDT.” But there’s no end date for its use. Countries are encouraged to promote research and development on safe alternatives, with the objective of encouraging overall improvement of disease control so that countries will no longer have a need for DDT.

The issue of alternatives to DDT also deserves somewhat expanded treatment. You correctly note that DDT is not a panacea, and yes, there is uncertainty about the effectiveness and cost of alternatives. But it is also the case that countries such as Mexico, the Philippines and Vietnam have successfully moved away from reliance on DDT. There’s a new project now getting underway in several Central American countries, with funds provided as a result of the POPs treaty, to help those countries determine if they can follow a similar path.

The issue of DDT’s toxicity also is a little more complex that you let on. DDT was historically viewed as safe because it didn’t appear acutely toxic. But there’s growing recognition that doses of DDT and chemicals like it that may be safe for adults are not necessarily safe for the “next generation” of humans—those in the womb. The leading study on this point was published by Dr. Matthew Longnecker from the U.S. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences in 2001 in “The Lancet.” He and his colleagues linked in utero exposure to DDT in the womb to small-for-gestational age and pre-term babies.

In a related vein, another NIEHS scientist, Dr. Walter Rogan, published two separate but corroborating studies (of women in North Carolina and Mexico) that found that higher levels of DDT in the women’s breast milk was associated with shorter duration of lactation. Dr. Rogan has pointed out that the duration of lactation periods is significant in many parts of the world because of reliance on breast milk to feed infants. Dr. Rogan has speculated that this is due to the estrogenic activity of DDE.

Your point on eggshell thinning also deserves elaboration. Yes, there is scientific uncertainty about the exact mechanisms by which DDT and its metabolites thin eggshells, but this shouldn’t be confused with the substantial scientific evidence, recited in National Academy of Sciences reports and elsewhere, making the link between DDT and eggshell thinning. It’s worth remembering that the link between tobacco smoke and lung cancer was made many decades before scientists figured out the mechanism of action.

The court that upheld EPA Administrator Ruckelshaus’ ban on DDT for agricultural use thirty years ago found substantial evidence in the record to support the decision. The court did not give special weight to the contrary views of the EPA judge, who it noted was a coal mining accident specialist. When making his decision, Ruckelshaus also emphasized that EPA’s proceedings never involved the use of DDT for health programs in other countries. He observed that “EPA will not presume to regulate the felt necessities of other countries.”

The POPs convention’s treatment of DDT—banning it for agricultural use but maintaining it for public health use—substantially mirrors the decision that EPA Administrator Ruckelshaus made thirty years ago. Premature or underweight birth, or premature deprivation of breast milk, are additional burdens on the precarious health of those born into poverty… The POPs treaty reflects the aspiration that we ought to aim for protecting infants and children from malaria without compromising their health in other ways.

Richard Liroff
World Wildlife Fund

That is really the crux of the argument, isn’t it?

A contrasting view would be that we should do whatever is in our power to stop needless deaths of humans due to malaria, with the knowledge and understanding that we are making a tradeoff.

Some people believe it is not acceptable that even one bird should die or one child become malnourished in the efforts to stop malaria.

Others believe that these are acceptable costs if the result is that millions of people survive who would otherwise die.

-mok

We can be grateful to Rachel Carson for sounding an alarmist note about DDT 40 years ago. “Silent Spring” sparked much beneficial discussion and research. On ecological issues, it’s better than not to err on the side of caution.

However, knowing what we now know, isn’t it time for DDT to take its place among the arsenal of tools used to fight vermin and disease? It’s neither a magic bullet nor an apocalyptical poison. I’d rather ingest a little DDT than come down with malaria. On the other hand, there’s no need to spray it in American suburbs where malaria is not a problem.

DDT is just a tool. Sometimes it’s the right tool for the job, sometimes not.

DDT is not harmfu in anywhere near normal exposure rates to either humans, fish nor birds. The thinning of the egg shell hysteria has been debunked by scientific study. The only reason DDT is banned is because of reactionary actions to urban legends and bad science.

In the link below there is a section on the egg shell thinning debate and bald eagles in particular.

http://www.junkscience.com/ddtfaq.htm

junkscience.com is a site with a very obvious agenda, and that agenda is not scientific objectivity.

Actually, scientific objectivity is exactly its agenda. Its main goal is to combat reactionary, emotionally tainted conclusions. DDT, second hand smoking and other politically charged debates all fall in this category.

Regardless, every point about DDT on the site has a reference cited.

Rubbish. The site wears its right-wing heart on its sleeve. Its purpose isn’t objectivity, it’s “proving” them thar li-ber-uhls is wrong.

How can DDT be a conversative or liberal issue? Every point has a reference cited so I don’t see how politics would play into it. If you have a problem with the references then let us know exactly what you disagree with.

Regardless, I don’t get it…if conservatives choose to disagree with conclusions made by a liberal leaning body then the conservatives are being pig-headed and backwards, but its ok for liberals to disagree with findings from a conservative leaning body because the findings are obviously ‘biased’.

What you “don’t get” is that www.junkscience.org isn’t in the science business; it’s in the editorials business. And, since they are claiming to be in the science business, that means they’re proven fundamentally dishonest before they even start. And that means life’s too short to bother with 'em.

I remember studying a science major in college, back when they left politics out of science. Now you have long lists of PhDs endorsing every crack pot conclusion outside their own field. sheesh.