# De Beers, Monopoly, and Diamond Prices **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 27, 2023, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777 "2023-09-27T13:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/81 "2023-09-29T17:11:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But not a profit in the 100s of %, which is what you’d get with the difference in sale vs buying price for diamond jewelry Good question. The jeweler might say “I sell, not buy. Go see a pawnbroker”. I don’t know the jewelry business, but considering the overall setup - unless it’s doing a roaring business, they need a huge investment in inventory to sell, since design is something very personal. While a car dealer might have a hundred cars on the lot, and sell them through within a year or less, how many rings does a jeweler need to ensure they have just the right one for you? And they’re not selling for the same price as a car, and people don’t trade in their wedding rings on a new model every 3 to 5 years (or, most don’t). Etc. Consequently, it would not surprise me if the markup is high for what they can sell. You want commodity prices, you can get gold bricks from Egypt. And when you need an appraisal, you need the price at which they would sell you a replacement, not what you could sell it for. The only person who would pay you that appraisal price, or even close to it, is another end consumer. The only good thing about jewelry, unlike groceries, is that the inventory does not expire. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/82 "2023-09-29T17:14:09Z")
Last time I bought a diamond, it was not in a ring yet. Are significant size/quality diamonds (I paid $8000+ in 1999) ever sold already set in a ring? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/83 "2023-09-29T17:15:29Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > The only person who would pay you that appraisal price, or even close to it, is another end consumer. I think you will find that the market for person-to-person diamond sales is at prices that are in the pawn shop buying range. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/84 "2023-09-29T17:16:22Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > It was for Clean Origin, for lab grown diamonds. “Well, we say ‘Clean Origin’, but actually, we beat up the lab nerds every day after work.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/85 "2023-09-29T17:20:53Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > And they’re not selling for the same price as a car, and people don’t trade in their wedding rings on a new model every 3 to 5 years (or, most don’t). There’s actually one jeweler doing just that in my area. They have some really stupid ads, but in one of them, they basically advertised a yearly diamond upgrade. You buy a ring that you can afford, and after a year, they’ll take it back, and credit you the original price on an new, bigger diamond. I’m not sure how many times they’ll do this, but if it turns a one-time $1000 purchase into a series of yearly $1000 purchases, why wouldn’t they just let you keep rolling it over? ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/86 "2023-09-29T17:31:18Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > The only good thing about jewelry, unlike groceries, is that the inventory does not expire. Someone should write a song about that… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/87 "2023-09-29T17:37:12Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > [@md-2000](#): > > > > The only person who would pay you that appraisal price, or even close to it, is another end consumer. > > I think you will find that the market for person-to-person diamond sales is at prices that are in the pawn shop buying range. The problem with person-to-person sales is that one or both parties probably isn’t qualified to evaluate the stone. In fact, I’ll bet that a good percentage of people would be fooled by a cubic zirconia stone. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/88 "2023-09-29T18:44:01Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The problem with person-to-person sales is that one or both parties probably isn’t qualified to evaluate the stone. In fact, I’ll bet that a good percentage of people would be fooled by a cubic zirconia stone. I recall a Canadian TV news show (W5 ?) quite a few years ago, that did a test where they took a cubic zirconium “diamond” ring to several jewelers for an appraisal. About half did not catch that it was not a diamond. One even insisted, when the TV people confronted him afterwards, that they were wrong. (And natually, the appraisals were all over the map). I suppose there’s a market for bling, but it would seem to me that “trading up” a ring that reperesents an romantic engagement or wedding seems like the ring is meaningless, so then why buy one in the first place? But then, kids these days… There’s a reason why grandma’s ring is passed down from generation to gneration, but the teacup set and the cooking pots less so. i’d be curious to know from someone in the business what the retail markup on jewelry is… ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/89 "2023-09-29T19:11:29Z")
I wonder if DeBeers is trying to figure out how to encourage people to bury a persons jewelry with them. Kind of a tough commercial to write… ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/90 "2023-09-29T19:53:04Z")
I wish people were just more honest with themselves - if a jeweler was advertising cubic zirconia and artificial diamonds at an honest price, and people simply like they way they look and are happy to pay said price for them - no harm/no foul. No one will care how much or little you paid for it. With “real” diamonds and shady jewelers you are always going to pay more to have the “real thing”, without really knowing the value of it, or depending on someone else to estimate it’s value. With the made-up value of a diamond, marketing insinuating that real is better than “fake”, traditions and emotions, and shady jewelers, the system is ripe for fraud. ---
**Author:** ![SailorHG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SailorHG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SailorHG)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/91 "2023-10-01T07:46:47Z")
I can picture an ad that might work with religious folk: Jesus descends from the clouds and there is an earthquake in the cemetery. All the dead come out of their caskets looking young and beautiful dressed in heavenly robes. One woman looks down at the diamond ring on her finger and smiles. Fade to black and a “Diamonds really are forever” appears onscreen. Corny, but it might work! ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/92 "2023-10-01T21:36:05Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Well of course, do you want an appraisal that says “this is what it cost you to buy from a jeweler” or one that says “this is what a jeweler will give you.” The first is what you want from insurance in the event of of a loss. I’ve noticed when watching _Antiques Roadshow_ that the appraisers will often give the owners two different values for some items. One will be what it might fetch at auction or otherwise sell for and the other, almost always higher, value will be what it should be insured for. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/93 "2023-10-02T00:34:27Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > How come more people don’t seek out diamonds on the secondhand market (even if some fraction are interred with their owners)? The propaganda makes this less marketable. Also “used’ diamonds” are worth surprisingly little. Spend $5K on a ring, you might get $500 offered. [How Much Do Pawn Shops Pay for Diamond Rings?](https://www.pawnamerica.com/Blog/How-Much-Do-Pawn-Shops-Pay-for-Diamond-Rings#:~:text=Pawnbrokers%20will%20typically%20offer%20no,only%20get%20%242%2C250%20at%20most). _So, for example, a $10,000 retail price diamond ring sold in a new jewelry store has about a $3,000 resale price, and if you pawn it, you’ll likely only get $2,250 at most. This extremely high new jewelry store profit margin is what upsets customers when they want to sell their jewelry item._ But Diamonds are kinda rare. They just aint that rare. > [@md-2000](#): > > I assume the real truth is mined diamonds are somewhat rare, but not rare enough to produce the price they retail for in recent times, especially now that mining is big business. Right. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If there’s one thing diamond merchants (especially De Beers) have mastered, it’s creating a market for whatever they have. Yeah, brown diamond used to be used for industrial uses, they werent made into jewelry- unless very large. > [@snowthx](#): > > Another successful marketing campaign is for “premium” vodka [Grey Goose](https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/15-things-you-didnt-know-about-grey-goose/). It’s not that it’s that much “better” than other vodka (aren’t all vodka supposed to be flavorless?), just better marketed such that people are willing to pay more for it, a lot more, than another brand. Blind taste tests show that is it not as good as Smirnoff. > **[This Blind Vodka Taste-Test Changed The Way I Drink — & Saved Me So Much $$$](https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/03/147252/vodka-taste-test)** > > We participated in a blind vodka taste test and the results were shocking. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another example. I buy Morton salt though it’s no different than any other brand But it is pennies more. > [@Chefguy](#): > > This is purely anecdotal: in 1967, I bought a 1K diamond engagement ring for my then-fiancee. I paid $1000 for it. Fifty six years later, you can buy a same quality 1K diamond ring for. . .wait for it. . .$1000. And you can sell it for about $250. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I haven’t heard of people being buried with engagement rings, personally, but I’m willing to believe that many families have that custom. My Ex worked at a funeral home doing makeup (she was a cosmetologist but jobs were scarce). Wedding rings were common, nothing else. and she said they were not stolen. Mind you back then, a simple gold band wasnt really worth a lot. > [@kayaker](#): > > It is breathtakingly beautiful, but it seldom gets worn due to its assumed value. Very likely “mine cut” which is very low value. sorry. But that doesnt mean it isnt beautiful. > [@Al128](#): > > if a jeweller is appraising the ring at - say - $10k … ask him if he wants to buy it at this price … chances is the answer is NO. > > Ask again, at which price he would buy it … the answer is probably in the 10-30% zone of the appraising … > > THAT is the value of the ring… Yep. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/94 "2023-10-03T15:30:57Z")
Recently went shopping for a “right hand” ring for the wife. (Didn’t know the “right hand” ring was a thing, but the women in the office seemed to be plugged in.) While I can’t remember the size of the stone (2.5 carats maybe) the price for the stone was $16,000. I asked about a lab grown stone, and the retailer had a look on her face as though she soiled herself. Anyway, I got the whole “only a real stone can be an heirloom piece” and “we’ll always buy back the real stone from you at the same price in the future if you’d like to trade up” spiel. When I pressed and asked for a comparable lab grown diamond, she trotted one out that was indistinguishable (at least to me) from the ‘real’ one. The lost was $3,500. I had to drag it out of her but she admitted that about 60% of the diamonds they sell now are lab grown. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/95 "2023-10-03T16:31:25Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I had to drag it out of her but she admitted that about 60% of the diamonds they sell now are lab grown. Our local place is leaning in to the lab-grown diamonds, mostly because they’ve finally given up the fight. But they’re still marketing hucksters, so they’re describing them as “Made in the heart of an artificial sun”, so that they still sound expensive. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/96 "2023-10-03T19:08:30Z")
The point about resell is - jewelry is very specific to taste. if the jeweler buys that ring, he may need to hold it for years before it actually sells. He will offer substantially less. But even for used cars, we accept that the dealer will offer less than a private sale and if they don’t, they are actually just discounting the car bought in exchange. Try selling a car to a dealer without buying another, see what they offer. I see there’s a website advertising now - worthy. com - (not so) subtle TV ads “…when my mother was ready to sell her wedding ring, she sent it to Worthy. com”. (Hmmm) This would bypass the jewelry store by doing the same as eBay but dedicated to jewelry, presumably with the service and commission to ensure that the jewels are in fact as advertised. (I didn’t check the details because to me it’s not relevant). > [@spifflog](#): > > Recently went shopping for a “right hand” ring for the wife. (Didn’t know the “right hand” ring was a thing, but the women in the office seemed to be plugged in.) About 10 years ago my wife bought a “fun ring” as the lady in the store called it, a matching ring set with small diamonds that went between the wedding and engagement rings. However, she does enough at work that after a frantic call one day - she lost her big diamond, and only found it after a half hour search - she no longer wears her rings to work. (I recently lost 25lb and my wedding ring finally fits again 😃 ) > [@spifflog](#): > > I had to drag it out of her but she admitted that about 60% of the diamonds they sell now are lab grown. Yes, the bling factor is winning over the provenance factor all else being equal. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/97 "2023-10-03T19:23:14Z")
If you get lab-grown diamonds, you can at least be relatively sure no one was exploited to mine them. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/98 "2023-10-03T19:26:12Z")
What if I staff my lab with workers I kidnapped and transported to the site. They’d be lab grown blood diamonds, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/99 "2023-10-03T19:28:57Z")
Bonus points if you staff your lab with Oompa-Loompas. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/100 "2023-10-03T22:29:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What if I staff my lab with workers I kidnapped and transported to the site. They’d be lab grown blood diamonds, right? If you’re really committed, you draw literal blood from your workers, and use that as the source of your carbon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777.md?page=6)