# De Beers, Monopoly, and Diamond Prices **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 27, 2023, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777 "2023-09-27T13:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/101 "2023-10-03T22:48:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > you draw literal blood from your workers, and use that as the source of your carbon. “Such interesting colors!” “Yes, we work extensively with trace metals.” ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/102 "2023-10-04T15:29:26Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I’ve seen several times on shows like the old People’s Court that the engagement ring is a sort of conditional gift, and legally has to be returned if the marriage doesn’t happen. This is a common case study put in business law classes. Generally, if you propose and they accept and you provide a ring as a promise to follow through with the wedding, the ring is conditioned upon following through with the wedding. There are established court cases where the proposer has successfully won the ring back. However, if you propose and it is concurrent with a traditional gift giving occasion, like a birthday, Christmas or other day when gifts are traditionally made, and the then the couple breaks up before the marriage, many recipients have successfully won cases that the ring was a gift and not a conditional promise to get married. So if you are planning on proposing and you believe that there is a chance that you might not make it to the altar, then don’t get engaged on her birthday, or at Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/103 "2023-10-04T18:51:11Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Generally, if you propose and they accept and you provide a ring as a promise to follow through with the wedding, A lot of the complaints I’ve heard were along the lines of not receiving (expensive) rings after a divorce, at which point I assume ownership is vested and the promise was fulfilled (for a time). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/104 "2023-10-04T19:11:18Z")
I’d expect family heirlooms to be returned but not engagement rings purchased new for the wedding. In my divorce we were advised that any stuff that belonged directly to us was to be kept by us and didn’t count when valuing and dividing up other assets. So even though my soon to be ex had a much more expensive wardrobe and jewelry, I was out of luck (not that I had an issue with that). Furrniture, appliances and cars were valued and split up. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/105 "2023-10-04T19:52:22Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > even though my soon to be ex had a much more expensive wardrobe and jewelry If he purchased those things after you were both married, you and your attorney could have argued that they were marital assets and should be liquidated and the proceeds shared as well. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/106 "2023-10-04T20:31:54Z")
Meh. Probably but we had a shared mediator and had no interest in auguring over petty crap. Buying her out of the house and leveling the retirement accounts dwarfed that. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/107 "2023-10-04T21:29:01Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > In my divorce we were advised that any stuff that belonged directly to us was to be kept by us and didn’t count when valuing and dividing up other assets. Cool! In my divorce they wanted every fucking thing. (worth every penny, and I harbor her no ill will. Almost no. For some definitions of almost) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/108 "2023-10-05T11:59:35Z")
Yeah, i think squabbling over the value of used clothing could only make the experience even less pleasant. Unless her jewelry or your weights or whatever had a ton of resale value it seems cleanest to just allocate that stuff to the person it matters to, and worry about splitting the big ticket items. ---
**Author:** ![TXRebel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@TXRebel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TXRebel)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/109 "2023-11-13T21:07:15Z")
Actually my diamond was his first wife’s. He had it reset for me. I couldn’t care less. I benefited from her cast offs all the way around! ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/110 "2023-11-13T21:10:04Z")
Damn. One of my ex girlfriends pitched a fit because I used a picture frame for picture of us that previously had a picture of me with my exwife. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/111 "2023-11-13T21:40:49Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I suppose there’s a market for bling, but it would seem to me that “trading up” a ring that reperesents an romantic engagement or wedding seems like the ring is meaningless, so then why buy one in the first place? I’m not so sure. My parents got married during World War II when they were young and poor, and my mother’s rings looked like it. For their 25th anniversary my father got her new engagement and wedding rings. Not bling, but a substantial upgrade because he could finally afford to get her something decent. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/112 "2023-11-14T17:53:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If I were buying a diamond today, I’d be looking for a man-made one. I bought emerald earrings for Mrs. Cad. Of course manufactured with better coloring and clarity than natural. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/113 "2023-11-14T23:00:54Z")
In a previous life I worked for an insurance company claims division. When people claimed for their stolen jewellery (legitimately), they would be offered replacement value. So they would produce a valuation for, say, $5K, and we would send them off to a jeweler to get a replacement item to the value of $5k. They would get their item, and a valuation saying ‘This item is worth $5K’. And we would get a bill from the jeweler for about $3K. If the claimant said ‘It’s irreplaceable - it’s Grandma’s old bracelet. Give us the cash’ - we would give them $3K. If they complained, we would say ‘You said it was irreplaceable - why do you want cash, then?’. This applies to all jewellery, not just diamonds. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/114 "2023-11-19T21:37:14Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > In a previous life I worked for an insurance company claims division. When people claimed for their stolen jewellery (legitimately), they would be offered replacement value. So they would produce a valuation for, say, $5K, and we would send them off to a jeweler to get a replacement item to the value of $5k. They would get their item, and a valuation saying ‘This item is worth $5K’. And we would get a bill from the jeweler for about $3K. Jewelry is basically fiat currency. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/115 "2023-11-19T21:39:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Jewelry is basically fiat currency. Not really, unless you like buying your dollars at $1, then using them at $.25. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/116 "2023-11-19T22:34:54Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I’m not so sure. My parents got married during World War II when they were young and poor, and my mother’s rings looked like it. For their 25th anniversary my father got her new engagement and wedding rings. Not bling, but a substantial upgrade because he could finally afford to get her something decent. If this is “in addition to…” then good. It represents an updated and reinforced sentiment. If it’s a matter of “trade in the 0.5 carat for a 1.0 carat” then it simply means the original has no sentimental value. > [@kayaker](#): > > > [@hajario](#): > > > > In my divorce we were advised that any stuff that belonged directly to us was to be kept by us and didn’t count when valuing and dividing up other assets. > > Cool! In my divorce they wanted every fucking thing. (worth every penny, and I harbor her no ill will. Almost no. For some definitions of almost) Never had to do this personally, but others whose life experience was more varied mentioned that it boiled down to materiality. If you’re arguing over a house worth $300,000 then a few hundred (or a cople of thousand) in clothes - used, so far less than list price - is immaterial. The exception would be stuff that represents a significant part of the total value of the shared property, like a mink coat (are those worth a lot nowadays?). The golf clubs, who cares? But if they’re titanium and signed by the pro, or there’s a golf cart… yes. So jewelry - that $500 necklace, who cares? The $10,000 pendant, count it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/117 "2023-11-21T01:27:53Z")
And the pants that fit you and the jewelry that suits you and the book your mother read to you is obviously more valuable to you than to your ex. There’s more total value of you each keep your own personal stuff. ---
**Author:** ![BrianDime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BrianDime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianDime)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/118 "2023-11-21T18:17:07Z")
My wife wears my grandmother’s engagement ring from somewhere around 1920’s. Is far nicer than anything I could have afforded back when we get married, and it has some nice sentimental value. On the lab-grown front: Steven Singer is running ads on SiriusXM offering to give away a 1c lab-grown with the purchase of “natural, earth-born diamond”. I did some looking around a while ago to try to find lab grown diamonds, and the prices weren’t as cheap as I’d expected. Seems like the price of larger lab-grown are a better deal, but down in the 1c .5c range, the price isn’t much better (that I’ve seen). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/119 "2023-11-21T18:32:03Z")
> [@BrianDime](#): > > Seems like the price of larger lab-grown are a better deal, but down in the 1c .5c range, the price isn’t much better (that I’ve seen). Yeah, we haven’t reached the point where lab grown diamonds are [as cheap as cz](https://www.cubiczirconia.com/collections/cubic-zirconia-loose-stones). Hopefully we will. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777/120 "2023-11-21T18:57:53Z")
Ahaha, this is a subject I’ve been researching for a while 🙂 [Lightbox](https://lightboxjewelry.com/) sells lab diamonds for $800 per carat. They’ve been the major price driver in the US, but you can get them cheaper if you know where to look… for example [Doveggs](https://www.doveggs-seattle.com/collections/lab-grown-diamonds-final-sales-in-d-color) (a Chinese vendor who has a US storefront) is having a sale right now for about $600/carat for a carat stone, and there’s a whole industry of Chinese vendors selling directly on reddit/facebook/instagram for even cheaper than that. I think there may be a price ceiling of sorts due to the temperature/pressure that has to be used to make them. Now, moissanite is the diamond simulant that used to be quite expensive but now that Charles & Colvard’s patent ran out, it’s super cheap (especially if you buy from a Chinese vendor). I have moissanite too and it’s super pretty and has higher dispersion than diamond, so more rainbows! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-beers-monopoly-and-diamond-prices/990777.md?page=7)