# De Frag **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 6, 2001, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664 "2001-01-06T01:18:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/21 "2001-07-27T11:26:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MannyL \* > \*\*_Mods is this is a double post remove. IE gave me an 404 when I hit submit. If not a double post please remove this section_ > > Many people have found that their system will not do a complete defrag due to Windows needing to write to the the perodicaly. I found a way to get around this it works in 95 and 98 but I can not get it to work in ME. Do the following > > 1. Have an Emergency Boot Disk available if you mess up you will NOT be able to get into windows > > 2. Boot from this disk and at the a:\ prompt type c:\ > > 3. Type cd\windows > > 4. type Edit system.ini > > 5a) Look for the line that says shell=explorer > 5b) type rem before it > > 6a) Hit enter on the S in Shell to add a blank line > 6b) Cursor up to that blank line type “shell=c:\windows\defrag.exe” > > 1. Save the file (Alt F, Save, Alt F, Exit) > > 2. Remove the floppy disk > > 3. Reboot the system > > 4. When the defrag program comes up start it, go out for coffee, dancing, whatever this will take a LONG time > > 5. When defrag finishes, put in the emergence disk > > 6. Reboot > > 7. At commeand prompt do steps 2 through 4 again > > 8. Put the word REM at the beginning of the line you added > > 9. Remove the REM from the original line > > 10. Save the file (see step 7) > > 11. Reboot > > Next time you want to defrag just do steps 1-5 add REM to the beginning of the Shell= line and remove the REM from the defrag line and jump to step 7. \*\* I just CTRL-ALT-DEL and end task on everything but Explorer and Systray before running it. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![micco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f8ce5/32.png) [@micco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micco)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/22 "2001-07-27T14:39:06Z")
The only real purpose of the defrag utility is providing a convenient stall for tech support. Many times when a user reports a problem to first-level tech support, and the clueless newbie (the first-level techie, not the user) can’t figure out the problem, they end the call with a confident “Well, it’s obviously a disk problem. Run your defrag utility and scan disk to clear it up.” The techie knows full well that this will do absolutely nothing to cure problems with software applications, but they also know that most errors reported are PEBKAC (“problem exist between keyboard and chair”) and getting the user to defrag means they’ll walk away for an hour or so and maybe do things correctly when they come back. ---
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/23 "2001-07-27T15:35:46Z")
I ran my defrag overnight (about 10 hours) about two weeks ago. I went to bed when it was about 20% “complete” and I woke up to 12%. I finally cancelled it, thinking it was hopeless as it kept saying that “disk contents changing” (paraphrasing) and would start all over. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/24 "2001-07-27T15:40:07Z")
Disk Defragmenter won’t run if there are other programs running, since it’s rearranging the data on the hard disk (and other programs using the hard disk will also be reading and writing data, interrupting the process). Commonly programs like screensavers and virus scanners will interrupt Defrag, so you need to disable these. The easiest way is to restart your PC in safe mode (or to disable all such programs using CTRL-ALT-DEL) and then run Defrag again. You’re seeing the 12% message because Defrag is only getting so far before another program does something, Defrag has a fit and restarts. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/25 "2001-07-27T15:48:10Z")
Sue, I believe we have discussed this several times and it has to do with the swap file ---
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/26 "2001-07-27T17:17:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > Sue, I believe we have discussed this several times and it has to do with the swap file Thanks **sailor**. I find your patience, expertise and helpfulness a joy to behold. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/27 "2001-07-30T13:33:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by micco \* > \*\*The only real purpose of the defrag utility is providing a convenient stall for tech support. Many times when a user reports a problem to first-level tech support, and the clueless newbie (the first-level techie, not the user) can’t figure out the problem, they end the call with a confident “Well, it’s obviously a disk problem. Run your defrag utility and scan disk to clear it up.” > > The techie knows full well that this will do absolutely nothing to cure problems with software applications, but they also know that most errors reported are PEBKAC (“problem exist between keyboard and chair”) and getting the user to defrag means they’ll walk away for an hour or so and maybe do things correctly when they come back. \*\* Not really…no… A heavily fragmented drive will cause all sorts of nasty problems, especially with certain programs. I have found many systems that were just plain flakey, office crashing constantly, system running slow etc. I check, and they havent run defrag in 6 months. I run defrag and the system is working fine again. I remeber this two person team called the digital duo or some such nonsene put forth this theory on thier show, along with such gems as “you should never have to reboot your machine, if the tech support person tells you too, ask to speak to thier supervisor”, and if they have to look anything up in thier documentation, ask to speak tthier supervisor. The tech support comunity was ready to tar and feather these two morons. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/28 "2001-07-30T13:49:49Z")
I’ve only seen three of my programs that make defrag utility go nuts and start over again: Winamp, Seti@home, and the sidewinder game controller software. Nnothing else that runs on my Win98 Machine seems to interfere with it. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/29 "2001-07-30T14:41:51Z")
I started this post 7 months ago so I feel free to ask another question now. I downloaded the Maintenance Wizard from the ME CD (it wasn’t initially installed). This provides a schedule for doing certain things, such as scandisk, defrag, etc., a schedule which I can make as I please. I plan to run the defrag at 7PM the first of every month. My new question is whether that will run if I shut down the computer (but not at the switch). I plan to shut down the computer before 7pm on those days and let defrag run. Will it run with the computer shut down, but juice still flowing? That would obviate problems like other programs running, starting in Safe Mode, etc. ---
**Author:** ![micco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f8ce5/32.png) [@micco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micco)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/30 "2001-07-30T15:11:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barbitu8 \* > \*\*I downloaded the Maintenance Wizard from the ME CD (it wasn’t initially installed). This provides a schedule for doing certain things, such as scandisk, defrag, etc., a schedule which I can make as I please. I plan to run the defrag at 7PM the first of every month. My new question is whether that will run if I shut down the computer (but not at the switch). I plan to shut down the computer before 7pm on those days and let defrag run. Will it run with the computer shut down, but juice still flowing? That would obviate problems like other programs running, starting in Safe Mode, etc. \*\* I don’t use ME, so I can’t answer the question directly, but I suspsect “no”. It depends on whether ME’s shutdown actually terminates the OS process or is more equivalent to NT’s logoff or a laptop’s power saving mode. However, a general comment about your plan: it’s generally a bad idea to automate a process which conflicts with other processes as badly as defrag does. Your plan works fine as long as you are _never_ using your computer at 7pm on the day in question, but this is a bad process to have kick off when you’re trying to do something else (though you could always just cancel it…). For things like this, I prefer to schedule pop-up reminders to myself, so that every so often I get a reminder to run some CPU-intensive process, and I then kick it off manually when I’m through for the day. For me this is generally full-drive backups and log parsing operations rather than defrag, but the idea is the same. Also, OT reply to **bdgr** , my comments were wrong in as much as any gross generalization is wrong, but I’ve had first-tier techies tell me to defrag my disk to fix things like comm port conflicts and sound card driver problems. Both the techie and I know full well this won’t work, so I just take it as “goodbye”, but it’s annoying when they do this to my less tech-savvy friends instead of just telling them they need to get such-and-such driver. So, you’re absolutely right that defrag has its uses, but when you hear it from a techie, take it with a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/31 "2001-07-30T16:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barbitu8 \* > \*\*I started this post 7 months ago so I feel free to ask another question now. > > I downloaded the Maintenance Wizard from the ME CD (it wasn’t initially installed). This provides a schedule for doing certain things, such as scandisk, defrag, etc., a schedule which I can make as I please. I plan to run the defrag at 7PM the first of every month. My new question is whether that will run if I shut down the computer (but not at the switch). I plan to shut down the computer before 7pm on those days and let defrag run. Will it run with the computer shut down, but juice still flowing? That would obviate problems like other programs running, starting in Safe Mode, etc. \*\* No, it will not run, unless the OS is up and running. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/32 "2001-07-30T17:01:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by micco \* > \*\* > > Also, OT reply to **bdgr** , my comments were wrong in as much as any gross generalization is wrong, but I’ve had first-tier techies tell me to defrag my disk to fix things like comm port conflicts and sound card driver problems. Both the techie and I know full well this won’t work, so I just take it as “goodbye”, but it’s annoying when they do this to my less tech-savvy friends instead of just telling them they need to get such-and-such driver. So, you’re absolutely right that defrag has its uses, but when you hear it from a techie, take it with a grain of salt. \*\* I know what you mean. There are some techs who use time consuming processes like defrag, and surface scan to dump a caller. [Here](http://www.digitalduo.com/201_dig.html) is the article that caused all the stink. I have had the misfortune of working phone support, and I can imagine haveing to deal with someone who had seen this show and thought that they should ask for a supervisor if I had to look something up in the knowlege base. Like there is some magical superhumer called a supervisor that has encountered every problem possible, and they will instantly know how to fix any problem. Where I worked, the supervisors were often the most clueless technically, their main purpose was damage control on pissed off customers. ---
**Author:** ![Golden\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ea924/32.png) [@Golden\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Golden_Child)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/33 "2001-07-31T01:58:36Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by MannyL \* Many people have found that their system will not do a complete defrag due to Windows needing to write to the the perodicaly. I found a way to get around this it works in 95 and 98 but I can not get it to work in ME. Do the following Don’t know what’s wrong w/ your operating ME but mine does a complete defrag and it takes aprox. 30 min. to do. Maybe something else is wrong here. ---
**Author:** ![Kalashnikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kalashnikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalashnikov)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/34 "2001-07-31T03:44:13Z")
Sorry, folks, but defragging was around before there ever was a Microsoft. Some operating systems may have had other names for it, but I do recall doing it on other systems. Man, that seems like a looong time ago. Am I getting old? Noooooo!!! ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/35 "2001-07-31T04:05:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kalashnikov \* > \*\*Sorry, folks, but defragging was around before there ever was a Microsoft. Some operating systems may have had other names for it, but I do recall doing it on other systems. > > Man, that seems like a looong time ago. Am I getting old? Noooooo!!! \*\* I remember doing it on early versions of DOS back in the early 80s, with Speeddisk. The really early version, that if it you lost power whille defraggin, or even stopped the program, you lost everything ---
**Author:** ![Fredge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@Fredge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fredge)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/36 "2001-07-31T10:15:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sue Duhnym \* > \*\*I ran my defrag overnight (about 10 hours) about two weeks ago. > > I went to bed when it was about 20% “complete” and I woke up to 12%. WTF? \*\* I’ve had the same problem on my current system. What I’ve found to be causing it is background programs writing to the drive while defrag (I use Norton’s) is trying to defrag. These other programs writing causes defrag to stop and have to re-read the disk, start over, etc. The solution I’ve found is to kill everything running before starting my defrag program. In addition to programs you can see running (Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, etc), kill the other stuff running in the background. Use CTRL-ALT-Delete and ‘End Task’ on everything except a program called ‘Explorer’ (killing that will shutdown Windows I’ve found). After you’ve killed everything else, try starting your defragger and see if that helps. If your disk is badly fragmented it may still take a while to defrag it, but you should be seeing steady progress. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/37 "2001-07-31T10:48:15Z")
is from symatec \ the program they’re known for today is mcaffe anti-virius also one benefit of running scan disk and defrag is you can get memory freed up by using it but if you delete things like the internet tempoary files files and cookies and such id do it once month or so ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/38 "2001-07-31T13:41:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nightshadea \* > \*\*is from symatec \ the program they’re known for today is mcaffe anti-virius > > \*\* Nope…Mcaffe is owned by Network Associates, originally it was owned by…Mcaffe. Symantic is the company that bought out Norton. and the do make thier own antivirus software, but its not mcaffe ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/39 "2001-07-31T14:29:34Z")
You can defrag but you must run scandisk first! Also, get a real program like System Suite 2000 which is fine for w9x. Not only does it do defrag in a fraction of the time DOS defrag takes but it has many other programs. When I first ran the registry scanner program it found several hundred old registry links that it cleaned up. Also defrags the registry. My three meg registry became one meg & things are running great. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664/40 "2001-07-31T15:58:06Z")
I believe in France it is de-frog. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-frag/48664.md?page=3)