# De gustibus non est disputandum - so I didn't like "Triplets of Belleville" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 18, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293 "2005-01-18T02:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/21 "2005-01-18T16:57:26Z")
> [@hazel-rah](#): > > Because the portrayals of other countries and their people by American animators have always avoided crass stereotyping for an easy laugh. Especially when it comes to the French. Like, for example, an oversexed effeminate skunk! > > Hearing people talk about the supposed anti-American slights in this movie… gosh, we can dish it out but we sure can’t take it. Aw, c’mon, he’s not effeminate, and he’s CUTE! I assume you guys know that both Pepé le Pew and Speedy Gonzales have been restricted to “non children hours”… apparently Pepé is offensive to the French and “Espiri” to the Mexicans, but every French and Hispanic I know loves them. Ándale, ándaleeeeeee! _zoooooom!_ ---
**Author:** ![audreyayn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@audreyayn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audreyayn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/22 "2005-01-18T17:17:37Z")
How can I not love the only slow-speed car chase I’ve ever seen on film? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/23 "2005-01-18T17:22:24Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > To select _one_ stereotype - fat, rude Americans - and get angry at that, seems to me to be awfully selective. Ether you appreciate this sort of humour by exaggeration, or you do not - that I could understand, either way. To get upset about one element of it is — limited. Why not be upset with the “racist characature” of Josephine Baker at the beginning? Or the “ethnic slurs” on the French themselves - that they eat gross glop? ITA, especially since, of all the stereotypes included (the French, gangsters, etc.), the American swipes take up such an incredibly small amount of screen time, proportionately speaking. I can understand not liking the pacing, the humor, the characters, etc., but to take fault with the type of stylization and charicature that are so common in animation? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/24 "2005-01-18T17:25:26Z")
> [@audreyayn](#): > > How can I not love the only slow-speed car chase I’ve ever seen on film? You’ve obviously never seen **Jade** (though that is, by no means, an endoresement). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/25 "2005-01-18T17:34:59Z")
I got the exaggeration angle, and I really wasn’t offended by the anti-American stereotypes, I just happened to notice them. To me the reason the movie didn’t work was simply that it was a _Haworth_- pretty to look at but _empty_. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/26 "2005-01-18T17:52:25Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > ITA, especially since, of all the stereotypes included (the French, gangsters, etc.), the American swipes take up such an incredibly small amount of screen time, proportionately speaking. I can understand not liking the pacing, the humor, the characters, etc., but to take fault with the type of stylization and charicature that are so common in animation? :rolleyes: I’m familiar with caricature in animation. Hell, most animation is nothing but caricature. But the rest of the "ethnic"exaggerations in the film (excluding the frog thing, since I’m convinced that was not a general dig at the French. More later,) such as the napping French at the Tour and IV’ing wine into the cyclists, were done with a sense of fondness. The only element I can say the same for while they were in Belleville was the incident at the pedestrian crosswalk, where the (enormously fat, of course. Har har.) Boy Scout was trying to help Gramma across the street. It was charming and funny. It seemed to me - and I stated in the OP that I might have just been sensitive to it - that all the other American stereotypes were just ugly and abrasive…or simply tone-deaf, dull, and monolithic. The frog diet was not a stereotype for general French food. It was a peculiarity of the Triplets. True, Gramma didn’t exactly serve up appetizing glop at the beginning, but she certainly had trouble with the frogs at first. And hell, I know lots of Americans who eat frogs. I’ve done it a few times myself. I even know a couple of folks who fish with dynamite. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/27 "2005-01-18T18:01:08Z")
Oh, and one other thing that grated on me was Champion. As a child, he was obviously unhappy until Gramma got him a tricycle. Only then did he express joy. WHERE THE HELL DID IT GO?! Christ, what an awful, awful, robotic lump of a character. At least the bicyclist who got shot showed SOME form of feeling, even if it was just agonizing pain. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/28 "2005-01-18T18:21:22Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Oh, and one other thing that grated on me was Champion. As a child, he was obviously unhappy until Gramma got him a tricycle. Only then did he express joy. WHERE THE HELL DID IT GO?! Christ, what an awful, awful, robotic lump of a character. At least the bicyclist who got shot showed SOME form of feeling, even if it was just agonizing pain. This brings up a different issue, one more worthy of comment than the anti-American thingie - and that is, whether a movie can work where none of the characters are particularly sympathetic. I think it can - I don’t have to like these characters to find their characatures and absurdities interesting; but I can understand if others cannot. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/29 "2005-01-18T18:27:12Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I’m familiar with caricature in animation. Hell, most animation is nothing but caricature. But the rest of the "ethnic"exaggerations in the film (excluding the frog thing, since I’m convinced that was not a general dig at the French. More later,) such as the napping French at the Tour and IV’ing wine into the cyclists, were done with a sense of fondness. The only element I can say the same for while they were in Belleville was the incident at the pedestrian crosswalk, where the (enormously fat, of course. Har har.) Boy Scout was trying to help Gramma across the street. It was charming and funny. It seemed to me - and I stated in the OP that I might have just been sensitive to it - that all the other American stereotypes were just ugly and abrasive…or simply tone-deaf, dull, and monolithic. > > The frog diet was not a stereotype for general French food. It was a peculiarity of the Triplets. True, Gramma didn’t exactly serve up appetizing glop at the beginning, but she certainly had trouble with the frogs at first. And hell, I know lots of Americans who eat frogs. I’ve done it a few times myself. > > I even know a couple of folks who fish with dynamite. 🙂 I don’t know - you say that the difference between the “French” stereotypes (like the Tour Cyclists) and the American ones is that the former are treated with a “sense of fondness” - and yet, in the next post, point out that Champion was “an awful, robotic character”. Seems to me that Champion’s character was intended as a stereotype of the “French professional cyclist” - and that, as you say, it wasn’t very sweet. He’s treated exactly like a horse, and somewhat resembles one. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/30 "2005-01-18T18:34:17Z")
I rest my case. Making jokes about Americans does not equal anti-Americanism. _Of course_ a lot of Americans won’t think it’s funny! You’re supposed to squirm a bit when people are making fun of you. I can’t believe my fellow Americans could be so thin-skinned. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/31 "2005-01-18T18:47:43Z")
I completely hated it. Boring casserole of steriotyped characters. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/32 "2005-01-18T20:00:22Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I don’t know - you say that the difference between the “French” stereotypes (like the Tour Cyclists) and the American ones is that the former are treated with a “sense of fondness” - and yet, in the next post, point out that Champion was “an awful, robotic character”. That’s because I don’t think Champion’s stereotype was particularly French. It was more generic. > [@](#): > > Seems to me that Champion’s character was intended as a stereotype of the “French professional cyclist” - and that, as you say, it wasn’t very sweet. He’s treated exactly like a horse, and somewhat resembles one. I disagree. He seemed to me to be more of a stereotype of the “Professional Cyclist,” not just a French one. Are all professional cyclists French? Nope. Champion happened to be French, yes, but frankly, the gigantic legs, beanpole-skinny body, and slumped-over bike posture are characteristic of any pro biker. His treatment as a horse was discordant. At the beginning of the movie, he was human. Then, because his grandmother loved him, she bought him a bike (well, a trike, but you know what I mean,) and through that love, he was completely and utterly dehumanized. I suppose the movie could have had intentional subtexts commenting on the effect of professional cycling, but…meh. It’s a reach. There was no transition that made me think that. There was simply Champion as a child, and then Champion as a horse. He was repulsive, and a sloppy character. > [@](#): > > Making jokes about Americans does not equal anti-Americanism. No shit. That’s why, if you’ll recall, I said “I may have simply been sensitive about it.” Twice. There are plenty of other reasons to think the movie sucked, and I’m pretty much on board with all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/33 "2005-01-18T20:16:29Z")
I really liked the movie. I only had one problem with it, and I think it was just me. Just prior to watching I had some left over KFC that that had probably been left in the fridge too long. Normally this isn’t too much of a problem, strong stomach and all. Then the scene with came with the frogs and dinner with the triplets. I almost lost it. Guess I missed the anti-american stuff, don’t remember it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/34 "2005-01-18T20:27:37Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > That’s because I don’t think Champion’s stereotype was particularly French. It was more generic. > > I disagree. He seemed to me to be more of a stereotype of the “Professional Cyclist,” not just a French one. Are all professional cyclists French? Nope. Champion happened to be French, yes, but frankly, the gigantic legs, beanpole-skinny body, and slumped-over bike posture are characteristic of any pro biker. > > His treatment as a horse was discordant. At the beginning of the movie, he was human. Then, because his grandmother loved him, she bought him a bike (well, a trike, but you know what I mean,) and through that love, he was completely and utterly dehumanized. I suppose the movie could have had intentional subtexts commenting on the effect of professional cycling, but…meh. It’s a reach. There was no transition that made me think that. There was simply Champion as a child, and then Champion as a horse. He was repulsive, and a sloppy character. You could well be right; I took it as a commentary on the French, but I suppose it doesn’t have to be. As for the “horse” transformation, I took it as ironic - this: > [@](#): > > …through that love, he was completely and utterly dehumanized. I think is exactly right. The difference is that this did not bother me - I thought it was interesting, and different from what I expected. Usually, a character like granny would be portrayed as doing nothing but good - but in this case, her major characteristic (her relentlessness) is both good (no barrier stops her from hunting down grandson when he is abducted - not even the Altlantic!) and bad (kid expresses interest in cycling, she trains him relentlessly until he has no character of his own). I think that, in summary, people who hate the movie are going to hate it for the same reason people who like the movie like it. The movie takes _everything_ to extremes, plays with every stereotype - and self-conciously so. Some people are going to like this; others, find it dull or offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/35 "2005-01-18T22:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I think is exactly right. The difference is that this did not bother me - I thought it was interesting, and different from what I expected. Usually, a character like granny would be portrayed as doing nothing but good - but in this case, her major characteristic (her relentlessness) is both good (no barrier stops her from hunting down grandson when he is abducted - not even the Altlantic!) and bad (kid expresses interest in cycling, she trains him relentlessly until he has no character of his own). This is a fair point, and well made. I really, wish, however, that a bigger deal had been made of it. I would have liked to see a transition between the child and the horse, for example, to show the effects of her persistence more clearly. The sudden change was jarring to me, and very unsatisfying. Again, I don’t mind extreeeeemes of imagery and caricature…but my main complaint (before we got sidetracked into how I was apparently enraged about the American stereotyping) was the pace and the plot. It was slooooow. Ice Age slow. Glacial. And sloppy. The story wandered to and fro, and I think it was damn near 35-45 minutes into it before we really saw a plot start to gel. I’m not saying I loathed the movie, but I felt it could have been so much better. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_A_Tame_Lion)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/36 "2005-01-18T22:59:42Z")
I watched this film just the other night. I was quite disappointed. The animation was good, but not so much better than your average entry in the Spike & Mike Festival. The music did nothing for me. And while there were a few clever and funny moments, they didn’t come often enough to sustain a really good movie. The thing that I think was most problematic for me was having the story told with hardly any dialogue. Certainly, in a lot of animation, that sort of storytelling can be effective. But in this case the lack of any expression beyond the visual made the characters flat and undeveloped. Most of the comments here have focused on a lack of concern for/empathy with the characters. I think that’s because the lack of really complex expression leaves you uncertain of what to truly think about these characters. I know that some actual dialogue would have necessitated the dreaded (in some parts) subtitles, but I think in this case it would have been worth it. As for the stereotypes: I recognized them, particularly the fat American stuff, but wasn’t particularly bothered by them. My only thought about that was that the stereotypes were overdone. All in all, a disappointment, especially for such an acclaimed film. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/37 "2005-01-18T23:17:40Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > But every time it dragged down to glacial pace, and I checked my watch to see how much time was left, I kept thinking, “This would have made a beautiful 30 minute feature.” No way there was enough material there to stretch it to 80 minutes. What really killed it for me was the glacial pace of the opening – by the time I had some inkling of who the major characters were, I was irretrievably past giving a damn what happened to them. ---
**Author:** ![tesseract](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@tesseract](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tesseract)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/38 "2005-01-19T00:52:54Z")
I loved it. I thought some of the American jokes were pretty funny – _I heart BIG_ in _I heart NY_ font on a fat American boy’s T-shirt)-- c’mon, we DO heart big. It didn’t occur to me that anyone would actually be offended until I read this thread. And I agree that the whole thing was about hyperbole anyway. I am a cyclist too – is that why I was never bored with the Champion? And did you see how many HILLS he had to ride up? Of course he wasn’t smiling! ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293/39 "2005-01-19T02:18:58Z")
I loved it. I loved the style of it, the exaggerated characters, the humor, all of it. Typical lame American crap: a movie (or book, or whatever) is no good is one feels they can’t “empathize” with the characters. Hmmmm…something to lampoon in the future: Americans are thin-skinned, and are so insecure in themselves they are desperate to connect emotionally with fictional characters. I laughed out loud at the American stereotypes. But then, I find being able to laugh at oneself (and even at one’s national character) is pretty essential for a healthy mental state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/de-gustibus-non-est-disputandum-so-i-didnt-like-triplets-of-belleville/285293.md?page=1)