There is a corresponding view that dead evil people become devils.
Some nuisances you just can’t get rid of.
<< There is a corresponding view that dead evil people become devils. >>
Is there really, Bosda? It’s a new one on me. I’d heard the idea that dead evil people become ghosts or haunts, but not devils. The usual interp is that the dead evil people’s souls are tormented (forced to listen to Madonna, endlessly, without rest, for eternity.)
There is a Talmudic story that the Pharoah of the Exodus is damned to stand at the entry to Hell, and then whenever tyrants or wicked kings go to hell, he greets them with the question, “Why didn’t you learn from my example?”
Re 21:8 - Show Context
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Another factor which muddies the waters is the fact that angels are considered saints, as for example “St. Michael the Archangel”. Since most saints, or at least, most of the ones we know by name (it’s hard to say just how many angels there are) are dead humans, it’s reasonable to conclude that this is therefore true of all saints, and that St. Michael, for instance, is a dead human. But the actual definition of “saint” is a person who is in Heaven, regardless of whether that person is human or angelic. So Peter, a human who died and went to Heaven, and Michael, who was created in Heaven in the first place, are both saints, but for different reasons.
Interestingly, this also means that canonization is not required for a person to be a saint. Canonization is just the official recognition by the Church on Earth that a person is a saint. But it’s perfectly reasonable for me to believe and hope that my dear old Grandpap, for instance, is now a saint, even though John Paul II has probably never heard of him, and certainly never canonized him.
Not precisely. “Saint” is just an English version of Latin “Sanctus”, “Holy”. You’ll find some churches dedicated to “St. Saviour” and “St. Faith” (“Santa Fe” in Spanish, but it’s to be found in English, too). Cecil’s dealt with this one, in fact.
Again, not precisely. “Saint so-and-so” can be an angel, an abstraction, or God, Himself, but “a saint” is human in all the instances I know of.
“Saint God Himself”?
owwwww
Let the banned bury their banned
I didnt hear much about this “order of angels” in my time in fundamentalist Christianity. I don’t think they (at least the SBC) pay it much mind. They also pay no attention to saints, being all “Catholic” and stuff.
So I found the Staff Report very interesting. Thanks Dex
As I said, there are churches named “St. Saviour”.
Heh. Been there, done that. What’s up with “fire and brimstone”? What’s brimstone?
Probably part of the confusion comes from artistic representation of angels and heavenly humans:
Angels get depicted with a bright aura to show their holiness, and thus they have white robes and a halo. Angels also get wings because they can fly between heaven and earth to do God’s bidding and relay his messages (there are, after all, the original errand boys). Angels are also given instruments because they continually sing God’s praise in the never ending heavenly liturgy (and you thought your Sunday services were long).
Humans in heaven get depicted with a bright aura to show their new found glorified and holy body, and thus, they also have white robes and haloes. Sainted humans also get wings to fly around heaven. And when the saints go marching in, they too get to play in that heavenly choir with harps and bagpipes. No wait, it’s the damned in hell that get the bagpipes [thank-you Farside].
Also part of the problem is the decided lack of awareness of most Christians of the orthodox belief in a bodily resurrection. Too many think of dead humans as Caspar on a cloud rather than corporeal beings (albeit with glorified, transfigured, transformed bodies) in a new heaven and earth. When you make dead humans into mere spirits, it’s hard to differentiate them from incorporeal angels.
Not to mention the horrific experience of the death a young child. It becomes understandable more comfortable to angelize a deceased baby rather than to imagine this child has now “grown up” in the eternal now of heaven and is a fully formed human saint on par with the rest of resurrected humanity.
Peace.
"From a distance, God is watching us, with a powerful telescope connected to a closed ciruit TV with hidden mics while angels are busily compiling outtakes of our lives to show in heaven’s hit series, Eternity’s Funniest Sinners
John W. Kennedy, I was just passing on what my high school theology teachers taught us. According to those good monks, a saint is any person in Heaven (so yes, the Persons of the Trinity are also saints, though not usually referred to as such).
And if all the bagpipes are in Hell, then I know where I want to go :D. But I thought that the damned got accordians?
:smack: Ach. You’re right, it was an accordian in the Far Side cartoon.
Bagpipes, accordians, kazoos… <shrug> They all make an infernal racket.
Peace.
“Welcome to Limbo, here’s your Yanni CDs.”