# Deadly Australian critters **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 22, 2011, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961 "2011-07-22T08:07:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/21 "2011-07-22T19:27:20Z")
There are a few issues at work, in my estimation, though I’m no expert. First, it’s a little unfair to simply count fatalities when considering prevalence of deadly critters. As noted upthread, Australians are well aware of the local fauna and know what to stay away from. It’s hardly a comfort for someone, upon asking “Aren’t there a lot of deadly critters in Australia?”, to be told “Nah, they’re only deadly if you don’t know what you’re doing.” Second, while it seems some people asking about the lethality of Australian creatures might be considering an excursion into the deep Outback, I don’t think a comparison with the depths of the Amazon rainforest is particularly apt. The critters people worry about when it comes to Australia are the ones that are found in urban areas. Everyone expects the Amazon rainforest or the Congolese jungle to be dangerous, but suburban Melbourne is a different story. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/22 "2011-07-23T00:22:58Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > It’s hardly a comfort for someone, upon asking “Aren’t there a lot of deadly critters in Australia?”, to be told “Nah, they’re only deadly if you don’t know what you’re doing.” > > Second, while it seems some people asking about the lethality of Australian creatures might be considering an excursion into the deep Outback As far as I know most of our deadlies live in the temperate forests, not the outback. As a bushwalker, especially one that goes off tracks through native bush, I’m far more concerned about Snakes than spiders. I carry a big stick with me, make noise deliberately and beat the stick on any logs I have to step over before I cross them. If I see a snake I stop, watch the direction it’s moving in and then back away slowly keeping my eye on it. The two that you should know about and be most concerned about if you do intend to do bushwalking in Australia are the Brown Snake and Death Adder. Brown Snake’s have been known to be aggressive and to directly attack rather than fleeing as most snakes do. > **[Eastern brown snake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_brown_snake)** > > The eastern brown snake (Pseudonaja textilis), often referred to as the common brown snake, is a species of extremely venomous snake in the family Elapidae. The species is native to eastern and central Australia and southern New Guinea. It was first described by André Marie Constant Duméril, Gabriel Bibron, and Auguste Duméril in 1854. The adult eastern brown snake has a slender build and can grow to 2 m (7 ft) in length. The colour of its surface ranges from pale brown to black, while its und... They are also very common. Death Adders dont hunt, they bury themselves in the soil and wait for something large to step on the ground nearby then strike. > **[Acanthophis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acanthophis)** > > See taxonomy > Acanthophis is a genus of elapid snakes. Commonly called death adders, they are native to Australia, New Guinea and nearby islands, and are among the most venomous snakes in the world. Despite their common name, they are not adders at all and belong to the Elapidae family (like cobras). The name of the genus derives from the Ancient Greek akanthos/ἄκανθος ('spine') and ophis/ὄφις ('snake'), referring to the spine on the death adder's tail. > Eight species are listed by ITIS, thou... Thankfully, Death Adder’s are relatively uncommon, but they are spread all through the outback and in NSW forests as well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/23 "2011-07-23T03:10:26Z")
Its all very well to claim that the venom is not lethal, but what about exceptional circumstances? Has any Australian been bitten while sober, for instance? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/24 "2011-07-23T03:20:03Z")
If cheap-arsed tourists come out here, to see the country and immerse themselves in the local environment and culture and just bloody drink water, who cares what bites them? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/25 "2011-07-23T03:51:02Z")
Well, this thread certainly clears up many misunderstandings about the Texas of the Pacific. When the room start to spin in Australia, is it always counter-clockwise? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/26 "2011-07-23T05:15:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > When the room start to spin in Australia, is it always counter-clockwise? Being a cove of sober habits, I’m not really the person to ask. But do I infer that it’s always a clockwise spin when stateside? ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/27 "2011-07-23T06:33:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **lynne-42** :Are you sure? They’re known to be quite adept at using the Web. I stand corrected, yet again. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ianc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@ianc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianc)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/28 "2011-07-23T08:57:51Z")
The creatures are still as deadly, but the vaccine for funnel web came in about 1980 and there have been no deaths since. Lots of bites, no deaths. Likewise the snakes better vaccines and better first aid (no tourniques, constrictive bandages instead - the venom travels in the lymph system, not the veins). So the hazard is still there, but mitigated by the Commonwealth Serum Laboratory’s (CSL) leading work. On the “new” taipan, it wasn’t so much discovered, as recognised as a disticnt species from other taipans. It always a toss up with venom: potency, delivery, actual kills… I know when I see a tiger or brown snake I go the long way. retrospecitively, while snorkeling with whalesharks in Western Austrail recently, we were joined by a tiger shark. I was not told until back on the boat, but the video looks bad enough. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/29 "2011-07-23T10:56:29Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > And while you are looking, here are statistics on [Leading Causes of Death - Australia](http://abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/B6940E9BF2695EE1CA25788400127B0A?opendocument). Nothing related to wild animals is in the top 20. Well sure, but they are in on the conspiracy. Obviously. > [@harriswillys](#): > > Small boys do not collect the usual snips and snails and puppy dog tails as they are likely venomous and pushing sticks into holes just was not done… The hell they don’t. I certainly did. My little mates when I was a kid certainly did. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/30 "2011-07-23T20:38:48Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > [COLOR=black]Cite, please. Even if you include traffic accidents where cars hit kangaroos and emus on the road around dawn or dusk, there is no way that “lethal wild animal encounter” is such a significant cause of death in Australia. And while you are looking, here are statistics on [Leading Causes of Death - Australia](http://abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/B6940E9BF2695EE1CA25788400127B0A?opendocument). Nothing related to wild animals is in the top 20. (Incidentally, dementia was the third leading cause of death in 2009.) [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]See below:[/COLOR] > [@Princhester](#): > > Well sure, but they are in on the conspiracy. Obviously. [COLOR=black]Let me add that it is thought lethal wild animal encounter accounts [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]for well over 20,000 deaths per year in Australia, a number which [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]if universally known would shut down the country’s tourist industry [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]completely.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Moving on to marine species, although shark and crocodile attack kills [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]100s of Australian water sport lovers every year, the less flamboyant[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]sea snake is usually fatal to over 1000. There may in fact have been [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]over [/COLOR][COLOR=black]1000 souls lost in a single episode:[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]It seems that during the unpredictably occurring mating season of the [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]sea snake species \*Aipysurus Horribilis \*several males will attempt to copulate [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]with a single female. These generate underwater rhythms detectable [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]to other [/COLOR][COLOR=black]sea snakes for some distance, and highly attractive to them. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Not uncommonly [/COLOR][COLOR=black]a deadly writhing mass of countless [/COLOR][COLOR=black]sea snakes will form. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]An unusually large one such drifted ashore at a [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Queensland “Gold Coast” [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]beach [/COLOR][COLOR=black]jammed with swimmers at the peak of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]the holiday season some time [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]in the 1990s [/COLOR][COLOR=black](Much detail cannot be ascertained [/COLOR][COLOR=black]due to the conspiracy). [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The result was a carnage of envenomation, many [/COLOR][COLOR=black]victims succumbing to [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]multiple bites before they could even get out of the water.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Hopefully events like this will some day find their way into light of public [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]awareness [/COLOR][COLOR=black]and the control of responsible parties. Unfortunately there is [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]now no end in sight to the conspiratorial grip of the Australian Tourist Bureau’s[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]conspiracy over lawmakers, the media, the medical profession, and others. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]There is just too much tourist money to be lost if the teeming millions of [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]foreign ecotourist Koala and Kangaroo lovers should be scared away. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]More to come.[/COLOR] ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/31 "2011-07-23T20:42:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Has any Australian been bitten while sober, for instance? Wouldn’t that limit it to toddlers & younger? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/32 "2011-07-23T20:49:07Z")
> [@oceanvista](#): > > I’m intrigued that New Zealand, a close neighbor to Australia, does not have poisonous animals. The few that are (Euro honey bee, a couple of reclusive spiders from Aus) are all imports. Given the ominous appearance of a lot of their habitats (fern tree forests come to mind) one would think there would be all kinds of venomous creepy crawlers. I don’t think there’s even very much in the way of venomous flora, but I’m not certain of that The Jared Diamond theory (mentioned by Constanz above) covers this. Basically, when food is plentiful (like in a fern tree forest), predators don’t need venom to get enough to eat. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/33 "2011-07-23T21:47:25Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I think another point that Jared Diamond (IIRC) pointed out in one of his books is: why are so many deadly animals - snakes, spiders plus ocean animals - in a relatively small spot globally? His answer was: scarcity. Australia has compared to the other continents, the least minerals for land-based food stuff, and the least nutrients regarding ocean currents, too. So if animals want to eat, they need to improve their success rate over normal animals elsewhere (I think a Cheetah in Africa catches his gazelle only 1-3 times out of 10 attempts), because if they don’t catch anything today, the next prey will only appear several days later, which is too late. > So to make sure that they get to eat today, the animals use venom/ poison to hunt. > > That explanation sounds plausible to me. And yet to anyone with an understanding of geography and ecology, it is obvious nonsense. While Australia’s most poisonous snake is found in arid regions, its second, third fourth, fifth and sixth species are all found in humid, tropical and sub-tropical regions, with most of them found in rainforest. Similarly the most poisonous ants, spiders, plants and so forth are also all rainforest and wet forest species. These are all regions of extremely high primary productivity, at least twice as high as the productivity of wet temperate regions of the Northern Hemisphere. Even the arid regions are not especially unproductive compared with other arid regions. Compared to the Sahara or Atacama deserts, for example, the vast majority of the Australian arid regions are lush paradises with extensive tree cover. Diamond’s hypothesis also fails to take into account the paucity of mammalian predators in Australia. An equivalent area of subtropical and tropical land elsewhere in the world would support a bare minimum of 20 species of mammalian predators cat-sized or larger. Australia has \*never \*supported more than 8. In contrast the lower 48 of the USA, which is somewhat smaller than Australia, supports that many cat species alone, in addition to bears, skunks, raccoons, opposums etc. And not only is the diversity of mammalian predators low, so is the density. Compared to areas with equivalent primary productivity elsewhere in the world, Australia supports less than 10% of the weight of mammlian predators. And note that this comparison is based upon the amount of plant food being produced. So Diamond’s hypothesis makes no sense at all. If food availability and productivity were somehow key, why are there so many poisonous species in the highly productive, humid environments of Australia and so few in the much less productive, arid regions of the rest of the world? The hypothesis falls at the very first hurdle. Productivity simply does not correspond to the density or diversity of poisonous species. What we do know however if that both the diversity and the density of poisonous species is highly correlated to the variability of climate. Regardless of how high the productivity is, if the climate fluctuates widely over annual and longer timespans, the number of poisonous species increases. Thus we also see high densities of poisonous species in the southern regions of South-East Asia and in the monsoon forests of India for example, while the deserts of India have only low densities of poisonous species. The reason for this is quite simple. While animals can easily adapt to even the most arid an unproductive environments, each species still has to maximise food intake when it is available. For predictable climates, that simply means higher densities. If a region Sahara desert produces 12 mice/ha, then it can support 1 snake/ha. If it produces 24 mice then the snake density likewise doubles. However in Australia an area will produces 100, 000 mice/ ha in one year and only 1 mouse/ha the following year. The snake density obviously can’t be maintained at 10, 000/ha when the food supply only exists one year in every 7. Instead, Australia species have evolved to maximise food intake when it was available. That means large numbers of cold-blooded predators that can ride out the bad seasons by not eating at all. It also means large numbers of highly poisonous species that can maximise their hunting success when in those brief windows when food becomes available > [@psythe](#): > > Stephen Fry would, I’m sure, not make the same mistake that Mr Bryson did in assuming that poisonous=venomous. The former refers to animals which are toxic when ingested - examples being the pufferfish (tetrodotoxin) and the poison arrow frogs (batrachotoxin) you mentioned. Venomous refers to the ability to inject a toxin, be it by bite or sting. I suppose that some venom glands could also be poisonous but this is an optional extra. I assume this piece of ignorance is taught in US schools, since it gets proudly repeated so often. It is not in any way true and never has been. Poisonous means “produces poison”. It’s that simple. A snake is poisonous if it produces poison. It’s thta simple. You could make an argument that venomous refers primarily to injected poison, but it would be at best pedantic and pedantically wrong. We have continuous usage in English, going back at least to Shakespear, of venomous being used to mean “poisonous when eaten”. So toad are venomous, for example. > [@colonial](#): > > [COLOR=black]See below:[/COLOR] > [COLOR=black]Moving on to marine species, although shark and crocodile attack kills [/COLOR] > [COLOR=black]100s of Australian water sport lovers every year, the less flamboyant[/COLOR] > [COLOR=black]sea snake is usually fatal to over 1000. There may in fact have been [/COLOR] > [COLOR=black]over [/COLOR][COLOR=black]1000 souls lost in a single episode:[/COLOR] This whole passage is utter nonsense. Shark attacks in Australia average about 1 fatality every 2 years, Crocodiles slightly less. To the best of my knowledge nobody has \*ever \*died in Australia from sea snake poison. ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/34 "2011-07-24T02:20:28Z")
I’ve been charged by a few brown snakes which are quite aggressive, if you happen to be in their way your the one that has to yield,they look like a brown stick on the ground and tend to inhabit open country so you should see each other. The one death adder I’ve seen simply slithered away when I grazed it with my boot as you say not particularly common. > [@coremelt](#): > > As far as I know most of our deadlies live in the temperate forests, not the outback. As a bushwalker, especially one that goes off tracks through native bush, I’m far more concerned about Snakes than spiders. I carry a big stick with me, make noise deliberately and beat the stick on any logs I have to step over before I cross them. > > If I see a snake I stop, watch the direction it’s moving in and then back away slowly keeping my eye on it. > > The two that you should know about and be most concerned about if you do intend to do bushwalking in Australia are the Brown Snake and Death Adder. Brown Snake’s have been known to be aggressive and to directly attack rather than fleeing as most snakes do. > > [Eastern brown snake - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_brown_snake) > > They are also very common. > > Death Adders dont hunt, they bury themselves in the soil and wait for something large to step on the ground nearby then strike. > > [Acanthophis - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acanthophis) > > Thankfully, Death Adder’s are relatively uncommon, but they are spread all through the outback and in NSW forests as well. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/35 "2011-07-24T02:37:15Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > As far as I know most of our deadlies live in the temperate forests, not the outback. Yes, that was rather my point. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/36 "2011-07-24T20:56:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its all very well to claim that the venom is not lethal, but what about exceptional circumstances? Has any Australian been bitten while sober, for instance? Not enough Aussies have been sober to collect data. We have missed the poisonous Blue Ring Octopus , Jelly fish and the platypus. > **[Australian Native Poisonous Plants](https://anpsa.org.au/APOL7/sep97-4.html)** And the many poisonous plants. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/37 "2011-07-26T02:55:24Z")
Over the weekend an elderly woman in QLD [was attacked by a kangaroo while she was hanging the washing in her backyard](http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/boxing-kangaroo-turns-on-phyllis-johnson-at-charleville/story-e6freon6-1226101595481). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/38 "2011-07-26T03:13:45Z")
Cecil’s idea of research was to use a book by Bill Bryson? Is this some sort of weird April Fool’s Day column? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/39 "2011-07-26T03:31:24Z")
I saw that kangaroo attack on the elderly woman. Call me a sook, but I would not like to get close enough to use pepper spray on an enraged kangaroo. Those damn things are big, quick and powerful. And savage. ---
**Author:** ![CAJPhoto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@CAJPhoto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CAJPhoto)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961/40 "2011-07-26T16:57:58Z")
Im surprised no one else mentioned this; if you go to YouTube and seach for Douglass Adams “Parrots of the Universe” he has a brilliant 1 hour video lecture where he talks at length about the dangers of Australia in relation to the kimodo dragon. He describes the snakes with such humourous detail its almost worth the trip. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadly-australian-critters/589961.md?page=3)