# Deadwood: 5/1 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008 "2005-05-02T02:15:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/61 "2005-05-04T12:36:15Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > My guess is because they had to do it eventually, and since the messanger was to fetch Doc as well, he told him to go to Bullock first so as to greaten the chances of the man dying. I think Wolcott was referring to the mine worker shot and killed on last week’s show but apparently only a day earlier in Deadwood time. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/62 "2005-05-04T12:48:07Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > As for Al. I think the kinder gentler is off the mark. What we have seen is an Al laid up half of the season and has been carefully laying plans to take care of Wolcott, Cy & the Bella Union in one swoop ever since. Yeah, he’s been laid up, but we have seen a change in him since the end of last season when he confessed about his horrible childhood and sort of admitted to his feelings for Trixie. Since then we’ve seen less sudden violence and more finesse. The way he talked to Sofia also moved me. He’s just not the hair-trigger psycho I remember from Season 1. > [@](#): > > You’ll get no Alma pitty party here. Yea, she’s been through a lot of crap but so’s everyone else. She has been the one character that has tumbled in popularity this season. The money has gone to her head - she’s a bitch. Needs to get out of that damned room and get some fresh air for a change. I wonder how much fresh air there is in Deadwood. No, I don’t think anyone quite has it as bad as Alma. Widowed, kicking opium, accused of murder, stranded in the middle of nowhere, pregnant, sick, alone, heart-broken… if you can’t find a way to pity all that, then you have much higher standards for pity than I do. I hope she marries Ellsworth. I don’t see as she has much choice anyway. Also, I think he genuinely has feelings for her of a sort and sees the opportunity for another family as attractive. In a way he’d be going down the same road that Seth Bullock went down-- a marriage of convenience to help out a woman and child in need. > [@](#): > > I think Al has a lot to do with her getting her foot in the door at the hardware store. He sent her there to be his ears & eyes as to what was going on. How so? I don’t think Al has ANY pull with Bullock and Starr. Trixie got that job through Sol’s fondness for her and on Al’s sufferance, not via any machinations of Al’s per se. Maybe Al came to see her presence in the store as an advantage for him and that’s why he let her go, but it wasn’t his influence that got her there. That was all her. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/63 "2005-05-04T14:43:05Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > All for Miz Iz meeting Wu’s pigs. I hope not. The woman hasn’t done anything to warrant a killin’. She’s just doing her job. She hasn’t hurt anyone or thwarted anyone’s plans, and she’s not in a position to do so anymore. She’s been smart, so far, and Al recognized and appreciated that. If she keeps on being smart, I think she’s safe. ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/64 "2005-05-04T15:02:02Z")
I like Miss Iz, if just for how she says ‘Fuck off.’ As to her fate, who knows? We, the Audience, were taught a little object lesson last season. The bogus orphan brother and sister were dispatched to the pigs with an alarming ferocity and swiftness. Cy said he did that to teach everyone not to mess with him. I think it was also done to demonstrate to us, the Audience, that some characters come, and some characters go. And some go to the pigs. Quickly. (Bye bye, Borg Queen!) ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/65 "2005-05-04T15:20:22Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I hope not. The woman hasn’t done anything to warrant a killin’. She’s just doing her job. She crossed Al Swearengen, which has been enough to warrant a killing in the past. Also, her machinations and cruelty to Alma Garrett, her arrogance and snide superiority, make her a better candidate for the pigs than some of the hapless unfortunates who have wound up there in the past. > [@](#): > > She hasn’t hurt anyone or thwarted anyone’s plans, and she’s not in a position to do so anymore. Not through lack of trying, she hasn’t, but she was\* trying to implicate Alma Garrett in a murder she didn’t commit\*. I’d call that some serious harm myself. The fact that Al hates the Pinkertons and outsmarted her doesn’t mean that she isn’t a viper. What did Alma ever do to her or anyone to deserve being prosecuted for a murder she didn’t commit? Oh yeah, she had a prosperous gold claim. That’s it. > [@](#): > > She’s been smart, so far, and Al recognized and appreciated that. If she keeps on being smart, I think she’s safe. I don’t think she’s safe at all. When Al threatens to cut your throat himself, I’d say you’re at risk. Sure, she’s ballsy as hell, but she didn’t do her research before she made her offer to Al. I think she assumed he’d do whatever she wanted for the right amount of money, not counting on the fact that he would make a decision based on personal feeling towards the Pinkerton Shitheels and a concern for the future of the camp shared with Alma Garrett. Miz Iz acted without doing her homework in the camp, and now she’s trapped. I love watching her squirm. ---
**Author:** ![TheFaerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TheFaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFaerie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/66 "2005-05-04T15:22:00Z")
> [@AerynSun](#): > > At first I thought there was something creepy with Steve, but upon re-watching, I see there was no opportunity for him to have done anything with/to William during the bike ride, and probably the payoff was to get back in Seth’s good graces. I thought so too, but if I remember correctly, when Steve gave William the penny, he said “This is just between you, me, and your pa.” Does anyone know if the transcript is online yet? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/67 "2005-05-04T16:54:02Z")
> [@TheFaerie](#): > > I thought so too, but if I remember correctly, when Steve gave William the penny, he said “This is just between you, me, and your pa.” > > Does anyone know if the transcript is online yet? Yes, it’s online. Here’s the ending convo b/w Steve and William: (Steve kneels down in front of William.) Steve: That’s between us. Tell no one I give you that. (He tries to put a coin in William’s pocket, William stops him, pushing his hand away.) William: I best not, but thank you. Steve: You keep it a secret, and you won’t get into any trouble. (Puts it in William’s pocket) And if you told I helped you on the bike, that’s between you and your father. Later on, it says that Steve is pinching William’s cheek. Eww. Maybe nothing actually happened, but molesters often build towards abuse by creating secrets between themselves and the child. Once the child has a burden of deceit and shows himself able to keep things from his parents, that’s when things escalate. Of course, I might just be reading too much into it. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/68 "2005-05-04T20:21:14Z")
Good points, **Rubystreak** , except that MissIzz did none of this on her own, but in the employ of another. It’s not her fault that she was misinformed about Alma’s role in Brom’s death. She probably thought she was helping to take down a bad guy, er, gal. How did she “cross” Al? Al stood to come out 50K ahead in the deal. I don’t see that she crossed anyone. She messed up, by not sussing out the facts for herself, that’s all. If I’m interpreting it right, she **still** doesn’t know that Alma didn’t have her husband killed. She’s not showing much honor, in allowing herself to be paid off, but that’s simple self-preservation. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/69 "2005-05-04T20:40:09Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > MissIzz did none of this on her own, but in the employ of another…It’s not her fault that she was misinformed about Alma’s role in Brom’s death. Do you think Alma would excuse her behavior if she knew that? Izzy’s a willing participant in a very dangerous game with very dangerous people. That her life might be in jeopardy as part of that game should not come as a surprise to her. She’s hardly an innocent in all of this. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/70 "2005-05-04T21:45:59Z")
> [@Ass For A Hat](#): > > Do you think Alma would excuse her behavior if she knew that? > > Izzy’s a willing participant in a very dangerous game with very dangerous people. That her life might be in jeopardy as part of that game should not come as a surprise to her. She’s hardly an innocent in all of this. I’m not trying to be contrary, but we might remember that no one has taken the trouble to tell MissIzzy that her information was wrong. A reasonable person might well excuse her behavior. Alma wouldn’t – she’s too close to the whole matter. Yes, she’s a willing participant in a dangerous game – much like today’s undercover cops. I guess I’m defending her because IMHO she’s not in the same category as the kills from the first season – the Mason brothers, Ted Driscoll, Miles and Flora, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/71 "2005-05-04T21:57:12Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I’m not trying to be contrary, but we might remember that no one has taken the trouble to tell MissIzzy that her information was wrong. I don’t see why she’d care either way. She’s employed by the Pinkerton Agency to do a job. Whether it’s just or not is hardly her concern. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/72 "2005-05-04T22:13:40Z")
True, she’s neutral. It’d be interesting to see what she’d do if she knew that her information was incorrect. Would she trouble to tell the Pinkertons they were on the wrong track? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/73 "2005-05-04T23:33:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **Minty** , > > Here is as near as I can figure it… Thanks for thr re-cap; this isn’t the kind of show to forgive much if you let your attention wander for a bit to something else. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > As that scene was unfolding, I thought I was looking at an attempt at suicide-by-fat-guy. Sometimes suicidal people have themselves killed by charging a cop with a machete or something obviiously self-destructive like that. That’s what I thought Wolcott was doing. > > After thinking about it, I’m not so sure. Perhaps he knew that the guy was much safer dead than alive, and saw the opportunity to legally have him killed. > > Or maybe a bit of both. Without the self-loathing he might not have had the balls to take the risk. I was pretty sure Wolcott knew Cy’s gunmen had him covered if Mose tried anything. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Yeah, he’s been laid up, but we have seen a change in him since the end of last season when he confessed about his horrible childhood and sort of admitted to his feelings for Trixie. Since then we’ve seen less sudden violence and more finesse. The way he talked to Sofia also moved me. He’s just not the hair-trigger psycho I remember from Season 1. Actually, I think Seth kicking the shit out of him (in all fairness, Seth didn’t look none to good after that fracas, either) may have pummeled a touch of humility into Al. If not the beating itself, then perhaps the resulting infirmities, and being bedridden. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/74 "2005-05-05T03:00:54Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > How so? I don’t think Al has ANY pull with Bullock and Starr. Trixie got that job through Sol’s fondness for her and on Al’s sufferance, not via any machinations of Al’s per se. Maybe Al came to see her presence in the store as an advantage for him and that’s why he let her go, but it wasn’t his influence that got her there. That was all her. Can’t remember which season II episode it was where Trixie was reporting back to Al what was going on in the store. While true she got there via her relationship with Sol, I think pressure from Al has been what’s kept her there (maybe that’s a glimpse of Al’s soft underside but he also is exploiting her presence for his benefit). In the long run, it is going to allow her a possible out from the whoring profession. Whether she decides to take advantage of it is yet to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/75 "2005-05-05T03:05:05Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > True, she’s neutral. > > It’d be interesting to see what she’d do if she knew that her information was incorrect. Would she trouble to tell the Pinkertons they were on the wrong track? It was my impression that she would just as soon pin it on Alma for revenge of being dismissed from her position (even if the teaching position was just a front). ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/76 "2005-05-05T03:09:11Z")
Sorry for the muliple posting Where has Silas been the last few episodes? Haven’t seen much of him since Miss Iz was plying him with her charms. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/77 "2005-05-05T12:13:25Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Good points, **Rubystreak** , except that MissIzz did none of this on her own, but in the employ of another. I could invoke Godwin’s Law on myself and say that “just doin’ my job” is no excuse for victimizing an innocent person. Didn’t hold up in Nuremburg anyway. > [@](#): > > It’s not her fault that she was misinformed about Alma’s role in Brom’s death. She probably thought she was helping to take down a bad guy, er, gal. Huh? I don’t think the guilt or innocence of Alma made a damn bit of difference to MizIz. Her job was to frame Alma, and that’s what she did. She’s a cold-hearted conniver who apparently has no compassion for the person whose life she’s trying to ruin. If she found out Alma was innocent, I don’t think that would affect her performance of her duty to the Pinkertons one jot. Clearly she was willing to create a fictitious scenario involving Al and Dan Dority implicating Alma when she knew for a fact that it was a complete lie. I really don’t understand why anyone would try to paint MizIz as some sort of naif in this matter. She’s a cold operator out for a buck, period. > [@](#): > > How did she “cross” Al? Al stood to come out 50K ahead in the deal. I don’t see that she crossed anyone. She messed up, by not sussing out the facts for herself, that’s all. If I’m interpreting it right, she **still** doesn’t know that Alma didn’t have her husband killed. Doesn’t know, doesn’t care, but I highly suspect she’s aware that Alma isn’t capable of that. As for crossing Al, if she’s not going to sign his papers, that alone could make her pig food. Obviously he feels crossed by her, or else why did he threaten to cut her throat? > [@](#): > > She’s not showing much honor, in allowing herself to be paid off, but that’s simple self-preservation. I don’t think the word “honor” is in her vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/78 "2005-05-05T12:58:16Z")
Well, it’s Thursday. There are four days until the next episode of \*\*Deadwood. \*\* I propose an Alma vs. Miss Isringhausen DEATH MATCH while we wait for the next episode. The fight will be refereed by Al and Mr. Wu. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/79 "2005-05-05T14:05:05Z")
> [@CBCD](#): > > I propose an Alma vs. Miss Isringhausen DEATH MATCH while we wait for the next episode. That wouldn’t even be a fight. If we’re going to send one of the camp’s women up against Izzy, I gotta go with Trixie. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008/80 "2005-05-05T14:08:17Z")
> [@](#): > > That wouldn’t even be a fight. If we’re going to send one of the camp’s women up against Izzy, I gotta go with Trixie. I’ll take Jane. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deadwood-5-1/302008.md?page=5)