# Deal cut with North Korea: For real, this time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 14, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264 "2007-02-14T20:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/1 "2007-02-14T20:52:34Z")
The six-nation talks have finally [produced a settlement:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/13/AR2007021301158.html) > [@](#): > > . . . Within 60 days, the North Korean regime is to shut down its Yongbyon nuclear reactor and reprocessing plant under the monitoring of international inspectors, who would return to the country after a four-year absence. In exchange the North is to receive 50,000 tons of fuel oil, the “resolution” of U.S. banking sanctions and the beginning of bilateral talks on the normalization of U.S.-North Korean relations. If the shutdown takes place, North Korean production of plutonium for nuclear weapons will also stop – a welcome if very limited step forward. > > Unlike the failed “Agreed Framework” between the Clinton administration and North Korea, the new deal is not open-ended: North Korea will get no more than the one-time “emergency” supply of oil, worth about $12 million, unless it takes further action. Will this be the one that does it? No more fear of a nuclear-armed NK? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/2 "2007-02-14T20:55:57Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The six-nation talks have finally [produced a settlement:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/13/AR2007021301158.html) Will this be the one that does it? No more fear of a nuclear-armed NK? [/QUOTE] Hey, the last one was for real, until GWB screwed it up. I think [Tom Toles nailed it](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/toles_main.html?name=Toles&date=02142007). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/3 "2007-02-14T21:04:02Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Will this be the one that does it? [/QUOTE] Sure. Eighth time’s the charm. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/4 "2007-02-14T23:05:41Z")
IIRC, the NKs are keeping the nukes they already have. The $400M are so they don’t make any more. > [@](#): > > The drawback is that North Korea keeps, for now, the weapons and plutonium stockpile it has amassed. > [@](#): > > Hey, the last one was for real, until GWB screwed it up. You misspelled “Clinton and Carter”. Even the Washington fucking Post doesn’t buy that one - > [@](#): > > Unlike the failed “Agreed Framework” between the Clinton administration and North Korea, the new deal is not open-ended: North Korea will get no more than the one-time “emergency” supply of oil, worth about $12 million, unless it takes further action. This accord also includes China, South Korea, Japan and Russia, whose involvement raises the chance that Pyongyang will comply and demonstrates that the six-party approach the Bush administration embraced more than three years ago can produce results. In that sense it is wrong to argue that the administration has simply reverted to the Clinton-era arrangement that it repudiated in 2002, and if it is rewarding North Korea’s misbehavior, the bribe is a small one. I realize that hope springs eternal in your breast that if you sling enough bullshit, you will get away with some of it, but really… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/5 "2007-02-14T23:27:15Z")
It must be a pretty good agreement. John Bolton [Hates it with a purple passion](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/2/14/131928.shtml?s=ic): > [@](#): > > “It is rewarding bad behavior of the North Koreans by promising fuel oil,” said Bolton. "It’s a bad signal to North Korea and it’s a bad signal to Iran. It will say to countries like Iran and other would-be proliferators, if you just have enough patience, if you just have enough persistence, you’ll wear the United States down. They’ll give up on point after point after point.” On the other hand, I’m going to wait a few weeks to see if it holds up before digging into the nitty gritty of the thing. We’ve had six years of repeated ‘almost’ breakthroughs after all. There’s no sense wasting time on what may just be another of the same. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/6 "2007-02-14T23:40:02Z")
Isn’t this pretty much the same deal Clinton made with Kim Jong Il, and was roundly excoriated by the right for? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/7 "2007-02-14T23:49:29Z")
Looks pretty much that way, although I’m certain that it’s a great victory for our leader: > [@](#): > > Bush in 2003: > We will not tolerate nuclear weapons in North Korea. We will not give into blackmail. We will not settle for anything less than the complete, verifiable, and irreversible elimination of North Korea’s nuclear weapons program. [http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030523-4.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030523-4.html) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/8 "2007-02-15T00:02:46Z")
For heaven’s sake, don’t you people read? > [@](#): > > Unlike the failed “Agreed Framework” between the Clinton administration and North Korea, the new deal is not open-ended: North Korea will get no more than the one-time “emergency” supply of oil, worth about $12 million, unless it takes further action. This accord also includes China, South Korea, Japan and Russia, whose involvement raises the chance that Pyongyang will comply and demonstrates that the six-party approach the Bush administration embraced more than three years ago can produce results. In that sense it is wrong to argue that the administration has simply reverted to the Clinton-era arrangement that it repudiated in 2002, and if it is rewarding North Korea’s misbehavior, the bribe is a small one. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/9 "2007-02-15T00:29:11Z")
What tangible benefits did Clinton grant to NK, which the current deal does not? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/10 "2007-02-15T00:30:49Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] For heaven’s sake, don’t you people read? > [@](#): > > Unlike the failed “Agreed Framework” between the Clinton administration and North Korea, the new deal is not open-ended: North Korea will get no more than the one-time “emergency” supply of oil, worth about $12 million, unless it takes further action… Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] A very negligible distinction. I am surprised you are so easily impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/11 "2007-02-15T00:51:09Z")
> [@](#): > > the bribe is a small one. It wasn’t much of a blow job either. I thought we were dealing with rock solid conservative principles here. Turns out it was bullshit. NK doesn’t get what they want for next year, they’ll set off a another nuke by Christmas. We should’ve negotiated in good faith back in 2001-2002, when we were in a position of _strength_. The reversal now, looks like an attempt at a legacy enhancement move by the president, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/12 "2007-02-15T13:41:11Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] A very negligible distinction. I am surprised you are so easily impressed. [/QUOte] Not me, the Washington Post. OK, I guess we have established - you _don’t_ read. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/13 "2007-02-15T13:46:37Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Not me, the Washington Post. OK, I guess we have established - you _don’t_ read. [/QUOTE] Do you agree with their assessment or not? If not, why would you post it? ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/14 "2007-02-15T15:33:10Z")
Maybe N Korea bought in their fire cracker - it does not matter, the real thing is letting them sort out a reunification with S Korea that gives them dignity. Personally I would build tractor factories against the wire, and then request that the wire is cut. There is also a shortage of Korean farmerettes … ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/15 "2007-02-15T15:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] - it does not matter, the real thing is letting them sort out a reunification with S Korea that gives them dignity. [/QUOTE] What makes you think they’re moving toward reunification? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/16 "2007-02-15T15:41:33Z")
The list of those [not impressed with the agreement](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/14/AR2007021401695.html) grows: > [@](#): > > Elliott Abrams, a deputy national security adviser, fired off e-mails expressing bewilderment over the agreement and demanding to know why North Korea would not have to first prove it had stopped sponsoring terrorism before being rewarded > … > John R. Bolton - “a bad deal” > … > National Review, a conservative bastion, yesterday slammed the agreement as essentially the same one negotiated by President Bill Clinton in 1994 … “When exactly did Kim Jong Il become trustworthy?” It remains to be seen whether Bush negotiated a decent deal, and whether he can stand up to the pressure to repudiate it; to say nothing of Kim Jong Il. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/17 "2007-02-15T17:51:22Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What makes you think they’re moving toward reunification? [/QUOTE] Unified athletics (like Olympic Games) - also plain common sense, you can’t stop a nomentacura (sic ?) avoiding obvious survival They are watching the DDR and those revolting ‘uman rites’ stuff’s - you don’t want to be stuck with an old crime ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/18 "2007-02-15T18:07:27Z")
So we’ve negotiated a deal with crazy ol’ North Korea. I’m waiting for the explanation from the White House about why it continues to reject diplomacy with Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/19 "2007-02-15T18:37:29Z")
I don’t believe Comrade Kim will uphold his end of the bargain. Danegeld never works in the long run. Hmmm… [this cartoon](http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000266.html) and [this one](http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000160.html) come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264/20 "2007-02-15T18:40:57Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] - also plain common sense, you can’t stop a nomentacura (sic ?) avoiding obvious survival [/QUOTE] 😕 What is that word, and who is “avoiding survival”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-cut-with-north-korea-for-real-this-time/392264.md?page=2)