# Deal on the filibuster rigamarole...maybe **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195 "2005-05-24T00:14:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/21 "2005-05-24T03:24:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Speaking on behalf of sentient pustules across the nation, James Dobson is pissed. Well, remember that the Batshit Right has been making threats towards the GOP lately. Unless, of course, that whole “Save Terri Schiavo or we’ll make you pay” was all in my imagination. Still, though, I’ll believe things are getting better when I see it. The Dems had their sacks snipped and emptied sometime ago. Choosing Dean was a step in the right direction (a good idea or not I don’t know, but choosing him at least showed that someone, somewhere has some balls). Maybe they’ll carry it out. But I doubt it. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/22 "2005-05-24T03:32:12Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Choosing Dean was a step in the right direction (a good idea or not I don’t know, but choosing him at least showed that someone, somewhere has some balls). Maybe they’ll carry it out. But I doubt it. I think the Dems are beginning to regret this choice. DNC fundraising has completely fallen apart, and now stands at less than half of Republican levels at the national committee level. Dean seems to be far more interested in bombast than party building, as Sunday’s _Meet the Press_ interview showed. Do any of you know what RNC chairman Ken Mehlman has been up to in that time? I bet lots of you would be worried if you knew. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/23 "2005-05-24T03:32:41Z")
More Dobson from [Redstate](http://krempasky.redstate.org/story/2005/5/23/225948/438): > [@](#): > > The unconstitutional filibuster survives in the arsenal of Senate liberals. > > “We are grateful to Majority Leader Frist for courageously fighting to defend the vital principle of basic fairness,” Dobson added. "That principle has now gone down to defeat. > > We share the disappointment, outrage and sense of abandonment felt by millions of conservative Americans who helped put Republicans in power last November. I am certain that these voters will remember both Democrats and Republicans who betrayed their trust. Feingold’s not happy with a compromise either, but we _have_ avoided batshit interpretation of the constitution, and considerably weakened the extremist’s case if they try to do it again. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/24 "2005-05-24T03:36:57Z")
[People at the Free Republic are pissed.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/23/201133/386) So by definition, this can’t be all bad. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/25 "2005-05-24T04:07:04Z")
And anything that makes Frist look like someone dissected his kitten is probably a good thing. no, wait… that would make him smile… :smack: I agree, I don’t see what the Dems get out of this deal. They can have the filibuster if they don’t filibuster. Big whoop. OTOH, I think not gutting Senate rules is good for the republic. I think the interesting thing is that, at least on this issue, we’ve moved from partisan to coalition governing. These 14 Senators could, if they wished, essentially control the Senate on any polarizing issue if they used this same tactic again. Either side would need to have the support of this moderate coalition to advance an issue. Having said that, I’m unsure of the total implications. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/26 "2005-05-24T04:32:00Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I think the interesting thing is that, at least on this issue, we’ve moved from partisan to coalition governing. These 14 Senators could, if they wished, essentially control the Senate on any polarizing issue if they used this same tactic again. Either side would need to have the support of this moderate coalition to advance an issue. Having said that, I’m unsure of the total implications. Check out the link to the article I gave in Post Number 5 here. Lots of implications looked at there. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/27 "2005-05-24T04:57:21Z")
Amanda from Pandagon gives us [another Freeper meltdown](http://www.pandagon.net/archives/2005/05/the_filibuster.html). ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/28 "2005-05-24T06:04:16Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Did you actually read the article, or just come in with a canned reply? This deal isn’t about Frist-- it actually goes against his wishes. I don’t believe for an astro-second that Frist doesn’t have his dirty hand in this _somewhere._ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/29 "2005-05-24T08:18:30Z")
Dobson has to gripe to make you Demmies think you won something. In reality, he may just be going “Haw haw” just as I am. I’m for the Bush Judicial Appointees, but was kinda leery about the Nuclear option (not AGAINST it tho). We won this round. Yay for us! Oh- and Dean is the best DNC head we Republicans could have. YEEEEAAAWRRR! ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/30 "2005-05-24T10:39:43Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Choosing Dean was a step in the right direction There isn’t a conservative alive that wouldn’t agree with you. Now that the Dems have slashed their own throats I can concentrate on the GOP and what’s pissing me off about the current state of affairs. Long time Pit thread has been brewing. It should surface soon. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/31 "2005-05-24T10:52:38Z")
I wanted to put this link in a thread somewhere, but I can’t find the right one after ten minutes of searching. Historic uses of the Fillibuster. > **[Newsday | Long Island's & NYC's News Source](https://www.newsday.com)** > > Breaking News, data & opinions in business, sports, entertainment, travel, lifestyle, plus much more. Newsday.com is the leading news source for Long Island & NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/32 "2005-05-24T11:30:25Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I think the Dems are beginning to regret this choice. DNC fundraising has completely fallen apart, and now stands at less than half of Republican levels at the national committee level. Dean seems to be far more interested in bombast than party building, as Sunday’s _Meet the Press_ interview showed. > > Do any of you know what RNC chairman Ken Mehlman has been up to in that time? I bet lots of you would be worried if you knew. **Moto** , you really end up looking not so bright when you channel Novak and the Freepers. If this is poor performance, I’ll take it any day and twice on Sunday: > **[Debunking the Drudge-Novak Dissing of Dean](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2005/5/8/112579/-)** > > Robert Novak's weekly column contained this broadside from "old-line Democratic fundraisers" attacking Dean. > > Democratic National Committee (DNC) fund raising under the chairmanship of Howard Dean ... > [@](#): > > A quick look at actual FEC reports shows that Dean has raised more money in an off year than any DNC Chair in history. > First Quarter of 2005 - $16.7 million > Q1/2004 - $28.7 million > Q1/2003 - $8.7 million > Q1/2002 - $11.8 > And Dean is on pace to break the midyear fundraising of $23.7 in the first six months of 2001. Remember what a mistake Nancy Pelosi was supposed to be, and Harry Reid to a lesser extent as well? What has this trio wrought, to the great despair of the Democratic masses? > [@](#): > > Gallup poll: Bush approval sinks, Dems rise > New CNN/USAT/Gallup, shown on CNN now - > “Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as president?” > Approve 46% (50%) > Disapprove 50% (45%) > > “… the economy?” > Approve 40% (43%) > Disapprove 58% (53%) > > “… the situation in Iraq?” > Approve 40% (42%) > Disapprove 56% (55%) > > “… Social Security?” > Approve 33% (35%) > Disapprove 59% (58%) > > Meanwhile, “controversial” Howard Dean has become slightly more popular. The question was last asked in February. > > “As I read each name, please say if you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of these people – or if you have never heard of them. How about Howard Dean?” > Favorable 35% (31%) > Unfavorable 33% (38%) > Never heard of/no opinion 32% (31%) > > And here’s the best one of all, a question last asked in October. > “Do you think the country would be better off if the Republicans controlled Congress, or if the Democrats controlled Congress?” > Republicans 36% (41%) > Democrats 47% (45%) > > As a bit of history, in 1994 - before the GOP took over congress - those numbers were Republicans 42%, Democrats 39%. > **[Gallup poll: Bush approval sinks, Dems rise](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2005/5/23/116357/-)** > > (From the diaries -- kos) > > New CNN/USAT/Gallup, shown on CNN now - > "Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as president?" > Approve 46% (50%) > Disapprove 50% (... But, by all means, you should keep rocking and repeating your mantra. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/33 "2005-05-24T12:18:53Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > **Moto** , you really end up looking not so bright when you channel Novak and the Freepers. > > But, by all means, you should keep rocking and repeating your mantra. As I said, I’m not sure if Dean is a good thing or a bad thing, but at least his selection showed some balls instead of more cowering in a corner and hoping not to be noticed. I’d really like to see some sort of response to this. I know we’re looking at GD territory here, but we’ve got people espousing two totally different sets of facts. **Moto** - if **Hentor’s** fundraising figures are correct does that mean you’re wrong? If not, why not? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/34 "2005-05-24T12:35:57Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > As I said, I’m not sure if Dean is a good thing or a bad thing, but at least his selection showed some balls instead of more cowering in a corner and hoping not to be noticed. Absolutely! Time will tell whether it was a good choice or not, but I’m very pleased to see him speaking up as he is. > [@squeegee](#): > > I think the interesting thing is that, at least on this issue, we’ve moved from partisan to coalition governing. These 14 Senators could, if they wished, essentially control the Senate on any polarizing issue if they used this same tactic again. Either side would need to have the support of this moderate coalition to advance an issue. Having said that, I’m unsure of the total implications. It’s an interesting set of names involved in this: Democrats Robert Byrd (West Virginia) Daniel Inouye (Hawaii) Mary Landrieu (Louisiana) Joseph Lieberman (Connecticut) Ben Nelson (Nebraska) Mark Pryor (Arkansas) Ken Salazar (Colorado) Republicans Lincoln Chafee (Rhode Island) Susan Collins (Maine) Mike DeWine (Ohio) Lindsey Graham (South Carolina) John McCain (Arizona) John Warner (Virginia) Olympia Snowe (Maine) My favorite saying today seems to be time will tell; I’ll look forward to seeing if they can hang together on more than this one issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/35 "2005-05-24T12:43:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, the GOP will gain at least one net seat in the Senate. I guarantee it. Which reminds me, I emailed you some time ago about the bet about whether D’s or R’s will gain seats in the next election, but I never heard back. Do we have a bet? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/36 "2005-05-24T13:12:35Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > **Moto** , you really end up looking not so bright when you channel Novak and the Freepers. > > If this is poor performance, I’ll take it any day and twice on Sunday: > > [http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/8/15236/84353](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/8/15236/84353) > > > [@](#): > > > > A quick look at actual FEC reports shows that Dean has raised more money in an off year than any DNC Chair in history. > > First Quarter of 2005 - $16.7 million > > Q1/2004 - $28.7 million > > Q1/2003 - $8.7 million > > Q1/2002 - $11.8 > > And Dean is on pace to break the midyear fundraising of $23.7 in the first six months of 2001. Gee, those are quite impressive numbers for the first quarter of 2005, and if you’re happy with them, I certainly won’t quibble. And you shouldn’t be at all concerned that, in the same period that the DNC raised that $16.7 million you’re so happy with, the Republicans raised [$42.6 million.](http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=5480) That would be more, wouldn’t it? A whole lot more. Why don’t you just hang onto Howard Dean. We’re pretty happy with the folks we have over here. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/37 "2005-05-24T13:18:31Z")
**Mr Moto** , consider who you’re arguing with. You’ve won by default. YEEAHHHH!!! By the way, the Deaniacs didn’t come close to the nom in my state after he promised it in that speech. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/38 "2005-05-24T13:23:40Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > **Mr Moto** , consider who you’re arguing with. You’ve won by default. Actually, if the cite is right, then Moto is wrong because the dems have been raising more money then ever (contrary to his statement that the fund raising had been falling apart) and right because the republicans have been raising more money than the dems. Even steven. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/39 "2005-05-24T13:29:06Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > That would be more, wouldn’t it? A whole lot more. > > Why don’t you just hang onto Howard Dean. We’re pretty happy with the folks we have over here. Remember, that your claim was > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > DNC fundraising has completely fallen apart… In actuality, DNC fundraising is not falling apart, but is at higher levels than past off-year numbers. Why did you say it has fallen apart? Yes, the fundraising numbers are lower than the Republicans. I don’t know if the Republican numbers are higher or lower than in comparison to past years, but I know that I prefer Democratic numbers to be going up, which they are. Why did you imply they weren’t? Why the snarky response instead of stepping up to acknowledge you didn’t know what the fuck you were talking about, you know, in a personally accountable manly fashion? Is your point that Dean is doing a bad job as DNC chair supported by the numbers or refuted? And for all the money republicans are raising, they are sinking like fucking stones, as the numbers I showed you above indicate. Their Senate leader has a big bunch of stink on his face after this compromise agreement. Bush is in day 83 of his 60 day Social Security roadshow, and you can see the direction his approval on the handling of Social Security in the polling above. You can see in these numbers, consistent across a number of polls, from [Polling Report](http://www.pollingreport.com/2006.htm) which party people want to see in control of congress in 2006. For all the talk of being a party with the coherent agenda, what the Republicans have done with all their control is interfere in one woman’s right to die and try to end the filibuster. I’m glad your happy with your folks. Most of America is not. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195/40 "2005-05-24T13:32:08Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > **Mr Moto** , consider who you’re arguing with. You’ve won by default. Still and all, I have a great deal of respect for **Mr. Moto.** I suspect he finds little solace in your statement here and your support in general. Of course, I could be wrong about him. You, I’m fairly confident, are a sniping little pissant weasel fucker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deal-on-the-filibuster-rigamarole-maybe/305195.md?page=3)