Dealership Refusing to Refund Deposit...

In My Humble Opinion
41

[QUOTE=Sam I Am]
In many situations, a deposit serves the purpose of ensuring the item won’t be sold to someone else until you get a chance to complete the sale (i.e. protecting the consumer), rather than protecting the seller.

Say I order something from the local electronics store, they say “yep, we can get that for you”. I say “great, but I can’t make it in for a couple of days”, they say “no problem, just give us your credit card number and we’ll put a deposit down to hold it for you”.

It’s entirely possible the OP’s mom could have thought this was what the deposit was for.
[/QUOTE]

How do you see that as protecting the consumer and not the seller? If you never go back, or go back and tell them you changed your mind, do you think they will refund the deposit?
Some deposits may be refundable, but it’s because of stipulations made beforehand. It’s common in real estate transaction, to include a deposit w/ an offer to buy, but the contract usually states that it depends upon certain things, like the ability of the buyer to get a loan approved, an inspection of the premises , etc.

42

[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
How do you see that as protecting the consumer and not the seller? If you never go back, or go back and tell them you changed your mind, do you think they will refund the deposit?
[/QUOTE]

In my experience they have, yes.

[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
Some deposits may be refundable, but it’s because of stipulations made beforehand. It’s common in real estate transaction, to include a deposit w/ an offer to buy, but the contract usually states that it depends upon certain things, like the ability of the buyer to get a loan approved, an inspection of the premises , etc.
[/QUOTE]

from http://www.californialemonlaw.com/salestactics.htm:

43

[QUOTE=Troy McClure SF]
Seems like if a deposit were refundable, it wouldn’t be worth a thing as a deposit.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. One of the dictionary definitions of “deposit” is “to give as security or partial payment”. As most reasonable people would understand it, it’s a payment given as a guarantee that an obligation will be met (namely, buying the car).

Alhough, I bet if you fussed enough, they’d refund he deposit because it’s not worth the hassle unless they genuinely incurred a comparable amount in costs when they placed the order for the car with the manufacturers. Shipping a car to the dealership and then storing it isn’t free for them.

44

also, from here http://www.massconsumers.org/carsmart/003-5.html

45

And one more, from http://www.abanet.org/publiced/practical/carcontract_deposit.html

I would think not having any signed contract does put your mom in a reasonable position to get her money back.

46

same thing, diff product, from a retailer’s view…

I used to work for a major home improvment big box store (rhymes with “Home Depot”, but who it was isn’t important.)

A person came in, looked at a custom granite counter top, chose her colour, paid a deposit for the measure (these things are not “off the shelf” items, each one must be custom made).

The data from the measure came back, and the cost of materials and install was about $8500 (CDN).

She was informed of this over the phone, and gave her credit card number. She was advised, both verbally, and via a Fax about the times (3-4 weeks) to cut her granite, and have it installed. (note- not only was it a custom install, to fit her existing cabinetry, but specialty hole drilling, etc were required to fit her plumbing requirements. She agreed verbally to these terms, and was advised that by providing her credit information, she had agreed to the conditions, this information was included in her faxed contract/reciept

2 weeks later, she calls up and tells us to cancel the install. She is politely informed that it can not be done, that it is a non refundable item, as it is custom made, and that it has already been produced and is waiting for the installer to pick it up. She is refered to the fax copy of the contract (which she read back, asked questions about, and generally acknowledged reciept of to the CSR)

Holy hell ensues. She claims that she never recieved the fax, was decieved by the CSR in regards to her liability/obligation, and will fight it in court. Home D. decides to cut its losses and cuts her a checque for the amount of the refund.

3 days later, the custom counter shows up at the store, and is heavily discounted (down to $1250, from $4000, but for counter top only). A contractor who is known to us comes in and buys it the same day. we causually asked him who the client was… guess who. Original woman who ordered in first place. Our refund covered the cost of the counter top plus contractor’s bill. Essentially, we paid for her custom granite counter top.

Home Depot doesn’t operate like that anymore, but it still p’s me off how that woman manipulated the store…

deposits have a purpose… they keep BOTH sides honest…

regards
FML

47

Thank you all for the varied and very helpful advice. It looks like we may not be in as strong a position as we initially thought and that bringing the lawyers into this may not be the best idea. Based on what you’ve told me, we may not win.

I think our best course would be to ask the Dealer if they could keep the $4,000 as “credit” and put it towards the cost of repairs and servicing of her existing car. She really doesn’t want the B-Class anymore but would rather have the money be put to some good use rather than piss it away totally.

Thanks again!

48

In England ‘deposits’ paid when buying a house have no legal significance.

I think the easiest way to deal with this is ‘reducto ad absurdum’

Your mother paid a deposit over the 'phone, when the contract turns up, you read it and see that full payment involves donating a kidney and two pints of blood.

In essence the dealership is trying to enforce a contract that she has never seen.
They are trying to charge for the privilege of reading a contract.

People have been muddying the waters by talking about deposits where customization is involved or reservation for a period of time is involved. In those cases there is an agreed service - and no follow up contract.

Whether or not the dealership has incurred costs is not relevant, they should not have incurred them until they had a signed contract.

Personally I would freeze the payment with VISA and then sit back waiting for the dealership to sue you.

IANAL but I would be interested seeing how their lawyers would state their case.

Incidentally VISA is very happy to issue chargebacks.

49

[QUOTE=FRDE]
In England ‘deposits’ paid when buying a house have no legal significance.

[/quote]

What deposits are you talking about?
I have bought and sold several properties, and never made a deposit.
My lawyer tells me that offers for houses are not legally binding until contracts are exchanged.

[QUOTE=FRDE]

I think the easiest way to deal with this is ‘reducto ad absurdum’

[/quote]

The safest way to deal with this is to quote the appropriate law in the the appropriate jurisdiction.
Are you such a lawyer?

[QUOTE=FRDE]

Your mother paid a deposit over the 'phone, when the contract turns up, you read it and see that full payment involves donating a kidney and two pints of blood.

[/quote]

:eek:
Do you have a cite for this occurring?
What would be the legal precedents?

[QUOTE=FRDE]

Personally I would freeze the payment with VISA and then sit back waiting for the dealership to sue you.

[/QUOTE]

You are recommending this person aims to get sued?
Again, what is your knowledge of the appropriate law?

50

[QUOTE=glee]
What deposits are you talking about?
I have bought and sold several properties, and never made a deposit.
My lawyer tells me that offers for houses are not legally binding until contracts are exchanged.
[/QUOTE]

You are right that offers are not legally binding, however it is quite normal for people to pay deposits. My current purchaser looked rather alarmed when I told him that the deposit he had paid was of no legal significance.

[QUOTE=glee]
The safest way to deal with this is to quote the appropriate law in the the appropriate jurisdiction.
Are you such a lawyer?
[/quote]

I said earlier IANAL - see my earlier post.

[QUOTE=glee]
You are recommending this person aims to get sued?
Again, what is your knowledge of the appropriate law?
[/QUOTE]

I clearly stated that IANAL

I also pointed out that the other examples of ‘deposits’ were made in return for a consideration. I omitted to point out that under English commercial law, that in those examples, a verbal contract had been made. That would not have been relevant.

It is perfectly reasonable to say ‘so sue me’, only a fool would take the word of a car salesman as being final.

When getting involved in legal tangles, the trick is to get as much evidence as possible in writing - it is called ‘laying the paper trail’.

It does not matter much who starts the trail, but the trick is to keep it in writing, and preferably not Email.

If the dealership decides to sue, then it is down to them to make out their case, once one has that in writing, then a visit to a lawyer is sensible.

The OP’s mother holds the upper hand as she sensibly paid by VISA, if, in the unlikely event that the dealership does more than make threats by 'phone, she can then see a lawyer.

I did not offer legal advice, although I did point out that there are different types of ‘deposits’ and that a non refundable deposit in order to see a contract is a pretty strange concept.

What I did suggest was a strategy.

Incidentally I’ve been rather successful dealing with legal problems on my own and other peoples behalf. I and another guy once made Rank Xerox shred all their software and hardware standard contracts as they were grossly illegal.

51

[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
How do you see that as protecting the consumer and not the seller? If you never go back, or go back and tell them you changed your mind, do you think they will refund the deposit?
[/QUOTE]
In the case of an electronics store, selling off the shelf items, there should be no reason for you to not get your deposit back. Considering that you could just as easily complete the sale and return the item for a full refund, there’s no reason to be a hard ass on the deposit. In these cases, the deposit is a “be nice to the customer” measure, you agree to hold an item for someone instead of selling it to the next person who walks in the door.

When the item is one that does not have a handy dandy return option, such as a car, or custom countertop, or a house, a deposit serves a different purpose. It’s protection for the seller, they are investing resources into your transaction, and a deposit ensures you won’t back out without compensation.

52

Is it possible that the Mom thought that she was making a ‘Down Payment’ instead of a deposit?
Not sure what the legal difference would be but it may be worth following up on.

Deposit = a payment given as a guarantee that an obligation will be met.

Down Payment = a payment in part made at the time of purchase of a good, with the promise to make full payment later.