# Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2006, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313 "2006-07-13T09:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/41 "2006-07-13T19:47:52Z")
[QUOTE=Steve MB] Wow – a trifecta (defining away counterexamples as “not liberal”, defining away counterexamples as “not authoritarian”, and incorporating the alleged traits into the definition of the group under discussion) of True Scotsman fallacies. [/QUOTE] Well, exactly. Just make up your own definition of “liberal,” “conservative,” and “authoritarian,” and you can defend any position you want. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/42 "2006-07-13T19:54:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I didn’t say it’s what Catholic people do, I said it’s how SOME people USE Catholicism. My cite is my own life experience. I was raised in the RCC and went to Catholic schools. My wife and kids are Catholic. I’ve been around the Church and Catholic people all my lives. I’ve seen and heard what I’m talking about with my own eyes and ears. There are people who think if they say a few Hail Mary’s that everything is good. Do you deny this? [/QUOTE] How could anyone deny that _some_ Catholics are dishonest or insincere in their beliefs? It’s a meaningless assertion. Are you arguing that dishonesty and insincerity are characteristic of _all or most_ Catholics? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/43 "2006-07-13T20:02:59Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] The first thing you must understand about this book is it’s title. On first blush, it would probably appear to the average reader to be a vitriolic attack on conservatives in the line of Coulter’s attacks on liberals. But you would be quite (if understandably) mistaken. . . . Dean is still a conservative, yet he can read the writing on the wall at least as well as anyone and knows how dangerous and ultimately anti-American the authoritarians within the ranks of conservatism have become and how they’re riding higher and higher on that dubious vehicle into American despotism. . . . . The key points Dean brings out are what social science has discovered about the bulk of conservatives, especially the social/religious conservatives (of whatever party). The leaders generally possess such key attributes as: . . . - opposes or discredits equality - desirous of personal power - amoral/Machiavellian . . . While authoritarian followers’ key attributes include: . . . . – prejudiced (particularly against homosexuals, women, or different religions) - uncritical toward chosen authority . . . . There is even a category of people who score high on both authoritarian leader and follower scales, nicknamed “Double Highs”. These are, of course, the most dangerous. [/quote] So this is not a “vitriolic attack on conservatives in the line of Coulter’s attacks on liberals”? I suspect the only difference is that you agree with these attacks. > [@ambushed](#): > > An aside: I noticed something many times while reading this book; I kept asking myself: “What about liberal authoritarianism? How wide-spread is it? What role does it play in American politics? What does social science have to say about them? Am _I_ a liberal authoritarian? Do _I_ have a conscience?” > > And then I realized that by merely _asking_ myself these questions it suggested that there are few to no liberal authoritarians (note my comment above regarding Stalinism), that the phrase at the very least _approached_ a contradiction in terms. For one of the key social science elements of authoritarianism is the lack of self-reflection and the asking of self-challenging questions! “And I’ve heard that conservatives spend no time on self-reflection or asking questions.” “I’ve also heard that they have gills that they keep hidden beneath their well-starched shirts.” Unbelievable. You’ve obviously never actually met a conservative. Here’s a tip – Go meet some conservatives. I think if you can get past their support for lower tax rates and a strong national defense (which obviously proves that they’re amoral and hate minorities), you might actually find that they’re human. And hopefully you’ll never feel the need to venture into the “I Hate People Who Are Different Than Me” section of the bookstore again. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/44 "2006-07-13T20:11:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I didn’t say it’s what Catholic people do, I said it’s how SOME people USE Catholicism. My cite is my own life experience. I was raised in the RCC and went to Catholic schools. My wife and kids are Catholic. I’ve been around the Church and Catholic people all my lives. I’ve seen and heard what I’m talking about with my own eyes and ears. There are people who think if they say a few Hail Mary’s that everything is good. Do you deny this? [/QUOTE] I seriously doubt that people think sinning is OK because of Confession. This certainly wasn’t the way I was raised, and I do not know people who have this attitude. > [@](#): > > Go to Christian Forums some time, or read a Chick Tract. There have been fundies on this very board who have said things like all unconverted Jews go to Hell but Ted Bundy is going to heaven because he got Jesus. A lot of conservative evangelicals think that accepting Jesus is a psychological get-out-of-jail-free card. Not all of them think this way but an awful lot of them do, including some prominent leaders. Christian belief about heaven & hell actually has nothing to do with your argument. There is a huge, huge difference between believing that humans are basically sinful, but if we fight against sin, and repent when we do sin, we are forgiven, and believing that it is OK to sin because we accept Jesus. You may think you understand what Christians believe, but I don’t really think you do. > [@](#): > > If you don’t think you did anything wrong then you don’t NEED the purpose. We’re talking about how some people use religion to relieve psychic guilt. If you don’t HAVE any psychic guilt then it’s a moot point. What I am saying is that a non-religious person still has ways of removing that “psychic guilt.” I just heard a story that Pearl Jam is donating a whole ton of money to environmental causes, bascially to make up for all the emissions they create when they are touring. Are these donations going to actually mitigate any damage they may have done to the environment? Probably not…but I’m sure it is making them feel a lot better about it. It is helping relieve their “psychic guilt.” > [@](#): > > I don’t think that social liberals often become tribalistic, bigoted and controlling enough to engage in the same kind of self-righteous, self-serving religiosity that Bush and his ilk are so known for. I strongly refute the idea that social liberals are not tribalistic, bigoted, and controlling. Strongly. Many liberals have strong prejudice against all kinds of different people. Especially people who are conservative, and particularly people belong to traditional religions (especially against people who hold to ideas such as tradtional gender roles). They are certainly controlling in government, as their belief in what the power of the Federal government should be goes far, far beyond what is allowed for in the Constitution (actually, conservatives do to, which I would not deny…but certainly they are no worse about it than the liberals are.) If you think that conservatives have cornered the market on self-righteousnes, then you have not been listening to yourself. And I am a former liberal, who moved over to the right because I realized one day that it is actually liberals do not tolerate any deviation from the party line, and I was tired of not being able to dissent without being labeled evil. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/45 "2006-07-13T20:13:12Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Diogenes, this is pretty pathetic. You define conservatism as lack of empathy, lack of tolerance, and lack of self-reflection, then anyone who lacks empathy, tolerance, and self-relfection is a conservative. [/quote] That’s not quite what I meant. What I was trying to say was that certain socially conservative positions cannot be held simultaneously with a strong sense of empathy, tolerance or self-reflection. Positions against gay rights, for instance, or reproductive rights, Positions for the death penalty lack a sophisticated sense of justice or coherent logic. Theocratic positions lack tolerance. Support for non-defensive, unlawful invasions of other countries lacks all of those things. Support for the current president at this point shows a necessary lack of either conscience, intelligence, intellectual honesty or all of the above. I didn’t mean to say that everyone who lacks empathy, etc. MUST be a conservative but I’m unaware of many liberal positions which REQUIRE the same ethical vacancy as some of those conservative positions. Some extreme liberal positions may be misguided (gun confiscation, PeTA, anti-smoking nursemaids) but I think they come from a place of misguided _compassion_ rather than the knee-jerk tribalism, religious bigotry and desire to kill people that characterizes social conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/46 "2006-07-13T20:16:58Z")
[QUOTE=wm–] How could anyone deny that _some_ Catholics are dishonest or insincere in their beliefs? It’s a meaningless assertion. [/quote] Exactly. Some strongly authoritarians distort their perecption of religion to suit their own psychological needs. > [@](#): > > Are you arguing that dishonesty and insincerity are characteristic of _all or most_ Catholics? Of course not. I’m saying that religious insincerity is characteristic of authoritarian personalities, ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/47 "2006-07-13T20:17:20Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] Here’s a tip – Go meet some conservatives. I think if you can get past their support for lower tax rates and a strong national defense (which obviously proves that they’re amoral and hate minorities), you might actually find that they’re human. And hopefully you’ll never feel the need to venture into the “I Hate People Who Are Different Than Me” section of the bookstore again. [/QUOTE] Don’t you just love how it’s conservatives who are labeled as intolerant? Liberals say things like this… [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I do think that authoritarians are more likely to use religion as a way to justify their actions as well as to twist it in a manner which will soothe **whatever conscience they may have**. [/QUOTE] and somehow, that’s just an acceptable thing to say about someone who has a different political POV than you do. Lovely. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/48 "2006-07-13T20:20:03Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What I was trying to say was that certain socially conservative positions cannot be held simultaneously with a strong sense of empathy, tolerance or self-reflection. Positions against gay rights, for instance, or reproductive rights, [/QUOTE] Wow… just wow. Do you honestly believe that anyone who identifies as pro-life is depraved and antisocial? It’s really not possible for intelligent, honorable people to disagree on the subject? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/49 "2006-07-13T20:26:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That’s not quite what I meant. What I was trying to say was that certain socially conservative positions cannot be held simultaneously with a strong sense of empathy, tolerance or self-reflection. Positions against gay rights, for instance, or reproductive rights, Positions for the death penalty lack a sophisticated sense of justice or coherent logic. Theocratic positions lack tolerance. Support for non-defensive, unlawful invasions of other countries lacks all of those things. Support for the current president at this point shows a necessary lack of either conscience, intelligence, intellectual honesty or all of the above. [/QUOTE] Pretty much all of what you say here is based on your personal prejudices, lack of understanding of conservative positions, and simplistic logic. You may think that somehow you have made a case, but you cite no evidence that conservatives even match the definitions you have in your own head that have been born out of nothing more than bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/50 "2006-07-13T20:43:40Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Some extreme liberal positions may be misguided (gun confiscation, PeTA, anti-smoking nursemaids) but I think they come from a place of misguided _compassion_ [/QUOTE] “If I knew for a certainty that a man was coming to my house with the conscious design to do me good, I should run for my life.” – Henry David Thoreau ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/51 "2006-07-13T20:48:05Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I seriously doubt that people think sinning is OK because of Confession. This certainly wasn’t the way I was raised, and I do not know people who have this attitude. [/quote] You should talk to more people. > [@](#): > > Christian belief about heaven & hell actually has nothing to do with your argument. There is a huge, huge difference between believing that humans are basically sinful, but if we fight against sin, and repent when we do sin, we are forgiven, and believing that it is OK to sin because we accept Jesus. You may think you understand what Christians believe, but I don’t really think you do. I would venture a guess that I probably know more about Christianity than you do but you mischaracterized (or misunderstood) what I said anyway. I didn’t say that ANYBODY believes that it’s ok to sin after they accept Jesus. What I’m saying is that Born-Agains believe that it absolves them of PAST sins (just ask them) and some of them see the salvic experience as something that can periodically be renewed if the DO commit future sins. They think they will be forgiven every time they ask, therefore the sense of moral culpability – or at least, a fear of _consequenses_ – is greatly reduced. > [@](#): > > What I am saying is that a non-religious person still has ways of removing that “psychic guilt.” I just heard a story that Pearl Jam is donating a whole ton of money to environmental causes, bascially to make up for all the emissions they create when they are touring. Are these donations going to actually mitigate any damage they may have done to the environment? Probably not… Why do you say it probably won’t help? I think it probably will, so there. Even if it doesn’t, at least they tried. > [@](#): > > but I’m sure it is making them feel a lot better about it. It is helping relieve their “psychic guilt.” I don’t know about that. I doubt they have much guilt about it to begin with. It’s not their fault they have to burn carbon to travel. > [@](#): > > I strongly refute the idea that social liberals are not tribalistic, bigoted, and controlling. Strongly. I think you mean you strongly _disagree_ with it, not “refute” it (refute means to prove wrong) but whatever. > [@](#): > > Many liberals have strong prejudice against all kinds of different people. Such as? > [@](#): > > Especially people who are conservative, and particularly people belong to traditional religions Most liberals belong to traditional religions themselves. What are you talking about? > [@](#): > > (especially against people who hold to ideas such as tradtional gender roles) Ah…so liberals are prejudiced against people who want to subjugate women. Nice twist of logic there. > [@](#): > > They are certainly controlling in government, as their belief in what the power of the Federal government should be goes far, far beyond what is allowed for in the Constitution Cite? Give an example of something these controlling liberals want to do (and last I checked, conservatives controlled all three branches of government) that goes “far, far beyond what is allowed for in the Constitution.” > [@](#): > > (actually, conservatives do to, which I would not deny…but certainly they are no worse about it than the liberals are.) They are infinitely worse about it than liberals are. Have you read the news lately? > [@](#): > > If you think that conservatives have cornered the market on self-righteousnes, then you have not been listening to yourself. No, I don’t think that at all. > [@](#): > > And I am a former liberal, who moved over to the right because I realized one day that it is actually liberals do not tolerate any deviation from the party line, and I was tired of not being able to dissent without being labeled evil. :IRONY SMILEY: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/52 "2006-07-13T20:56:10Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Don’t you just love how it’s conservatives who are labeled as intolerant? Liberals say things like this… and somehow, that’s just an acceptable thing to say about someone who has a different political POV than you do. Lovely. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say it about people who have a “different political POV” than I do. I said it about people with authoritarian personalities. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/53 "2006-07-13T21:02:27Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Don’t you just love how it’s conservatives who are labeled as intolerant? Liberals say things like this… and somehow, that’s just an acceptable thing to say about someone who has a different political POV than you do. Lovely. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say it about people who have a “different political POV” than I do. I said it about people with authoritarian personalities. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/54 "2006-07-13T21:06:38Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I didn’t say it about people who have a “different political POV” than I do. I said it about people with authoritarian personalities. [/QUOTE] Where “authoritarian” = disagrees with your liberal political views. You said it yourself: “These kinds of people are almost always social conservatives.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/55 "2006-07-13T21:08:18Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Cite? Give an example of something these controlling liberals want to do (and last I checked, conservatives controlled all three branches of government) that goes "far, far beyond what is allowed for in the Constitution. [/QUOTE] Which liberals? You? That’s easy. You want to declare it unsconstitutional for parents to home school their kids and not teach Darwinian Evolution\*. Now, I would never advocate that a parent do that, and I’d certainly never do it myself, but it isn’t unconstitutional to do so. \*I’m not talking about teaching creationism, just omitting the teaching of evolution ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/56 "2006-07-13T21:14:39Z")
[QUOTE=wm–] Wow… just wow. Do you honestly believe that anyone who identifies as pro-life is depraved and antisocial? [/quote] I didn’t say “depraved and anti-social,” That’s a little extreme. I do think anyone who wants to force a teenage girl (or any woman for that matter) to bear the child of her rapist, or wants to prohibit doctors from using the safest procedures in terminating 2nd trimester pregnancies lacks empathy. The anti-abortion position in general also lacks basic human respect for another person’s body. It supplants that respect with a personal religious belief that an embryo is exactly the same as a full term baby. It’s at least, not well thought out and at worst, misogynistic and callous. > [@](#): > > It’s really not possible for intelligent, honorable people to disagree on the subject? I don’t think anyone who is BOTH intelligent and compassionate can be in favorable of forcing women to be pregnant against their will. No I don’t. For what it’s worth, I think most pro-lifers just haven’t thought it through. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/57 "2006-07-13T21:17:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You should talk to more people. [/QUOTE] Whatever. So should you. > [@](#): > > I would venture a guess that I probably know more about Christianity than you do but you mischaracterized (or misunderstood) what I said anyway. I didn’t say that ANYBODY believes that it’s ok to sin after they accept Jesus. What I’m saying is that Born-Agains believe that it absolves them of PAST sins (just ask them) and some of them see the salvic experience as something that can periodically be renewed if the DO commit future sins. They think they will be forgiven every time they ask, therefore the sense of moral culpability – or at least, a fear of _consequenses_ – is greatly reduced. What consequences? Going to hell? That has nothing to do with your obligations on earth. > [@](#): > > Why do you say it probably won’t help? I think it probably will, so there. Even if it doesn’t, at least they tried. I wouldn’t disagree…I was impressed that they were doing it. Better than a lot of folks who bitch about what everyone else does or doesn’t do, instead of trying to be responsible for themselves. > [@](#): > > I don’t know about that. I doubt they have much guilt about it to begin with. It’s not their fault they have to burn carbon to travel. I think guilt was exactly the motivator. No, it’s not their fault that they have to burn carbon to travel, but the only reason they need to do the traveling is to line their own pockets…certainly, they are past the point where there is any need for them to tour or to make more money. They know this…that’s why they feel guilty, I’m sure. > [@](#): > > I think you mean you strongly _disagree_ with it, not “refute” it (refute means to prove wrong) but whatever. Yes, whatever. > [@](#): > > Most liberals belong to traditional religions themselves. What are you talking about? They may belong to traditional religions, but they do not believe in tradtional religious belief. > [@](#): > > Ah…so liberals are prejudiced against people who want to subjugate women. Nice twist of logic there. Women have every right to belong to religions that believe in traditional gender roles. > [@](#): > > Cite? Give an example of something these controlling liberals want to do (and last I checked, conservatives controlled all three branches of government) that goes “far, far beyond what is allowed for in the Constitution.” Liberals support a nation policy on abortion, they support a nation policy on what can be taught in science classes, they support a national policy on gay rights, they support a national policy on gun control…shall I go on? All of these issues should be decided at the state and/or local level. > [@](#): > > :IRONY SMILEY: You think you are clever, but you don’t know me. I personally am socially liberal. The conservatives I know don’t have a problem with this. They may think I’m wrong, but they understand that everyone has a different opinion. The liberals I know are a different story. If you disagree with them, you are not just wrong or hold a different opinion, you are evil. Your own post that I quoted earlier implies that you think conservatives don’t have a conscience. Real open-minded on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/58 "2006-07-13T21:17:42Z")
[QUOTE=wm–] Where “authoritarian” = disagrees with your liberal political views. [/quote] Wrong. Not all conservatives are authoritarian. > [@](#): > > You said it yourself: “These kinds of people are almost always social conservatives.” Which is not the same as saying that all conservatives are totalitarian or even that all conservatives are _social_ conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/59 "2006-07-13T21:22:31Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Which liberals? You? That’s easy. You want to declare it unsconstitutional for parents to home school their kids and not teach Darwinian Evolution\*. Now, I would never advocate that a parent do that, and I’d certainly never do it myself, but it isn’t unconstitutional to do so. \*I’m not talking about teaching creationism, just omitting the teaching of evolution [/QUOTE] That was an Equal Protection argument on my part. I was arguing that all children have the same right to be guaranteed an adequate education or none of them do. I also don’t think parents have a right to DEPRIVE their children of an education. So my argument did not go beyond the Constitution and was all about protecting the rights of children, not taking any rights away (there is no Constitutional right to prevent your children from being educated). ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313/60 "2006-07-13T21:28:28Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t think anyone who is BOTH intelligent and compassionate can be in favorable of forcing women to be pregnant against their will. No I don’t. [/QUOTE] Thanks for the frank response. For what it’s worth, the question wasn’t meant as a gotcha, I genuinely wanted to know if that was the base position you’re arguing from. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deans-conservatives-without-conscience/364313.md?page=4)