Why?
For me, it’s a hugely interesting subject, and I read every book on that subject I can get my hands on. But it has zero practical value for anyone who isn’t a Biologist. Zero, zip, nada, zilch.
To elevate “evolution” to the level of “reading” is just laughable, but it does speak to the idea of “evolution as religion”. We must defend evolution and so any argument we use to defend it is a good argument. Bull-shit.
How about when the creationists do things like spout bad medical advice, like this guy’s back posture advice, given because he opposes the evolutionary explanation of our back’s structure.
Evolution is very important, and touches many things we care about, such as biology, medicine, and psychology. I don’t consider it quite as important as reading, because reading will let you read about evolution, along with everything else; it’s the gateway to knowledge, and I consider it the single most important thing to teach. I consider evolution much more important that, say, geography.
Is American history an important subject?
Also, what do you mean by “defending evolution?” Defend it against what?
Oh ? And if the rabid fundie creationist Christian politicians ( who get voted in because the people haven’t been taught “impractical” evolutionary theory ) want to pass a bill that mandates creationism be taught instead of evolution, and treated as fact in all of science, that won’t have practical consequences ?
First, we’d have a famine; just like the Soviets had with Lysenkoism and it’s denial of Darwinian evolution. We’d be trying to breed crops according to some bizarre “God’s Will” theory instead of actual genetics.
Medicine would take a massive hit; for example, you’d see the creation of new antibiotics banned because admitting that microbes evolve resistance is forbidden. Cancer research would be crippled as well, since cancer evolves.
We’d lose even more world influence, as no sensible foreigner would go to an American university/madrasa to be filled with American ignorance instead of modern knowledge.
Our judgement as a society would become even more screwed up, because we’d be in such deep denial of reality.
Depends on the age of the child. I assume we’re talking about HS age kids, but of course a parents’ authority is increased for younger kids. So yes, it is more authoritarian. Parents aren’t give quite a bit of control over their kids, but not 100% control.
Minors are not legally allowed access to porn in any state that I know of, so I don’t see how this is relavent.
Again, depends on the age. Can you cite a law giving parents the power to forbid HS age kids form going to a library and reading any book there? Parents can punish children, but suppose a 15 year old refuses to give up his book on satanism. What can they do-- beat him into submisssion? Nope, that’s child abuse.
I didn’t realize that not learing about evolution = HS dropout.
More or less important than evolution?
Apparently you believe that if a student fails any of the questions on evolution on a GED test, he should fail the whole test even if he aces everything else. Is it the same for American history?
Somehow I doubt this “all kinds of ways” stuff. Unless you define “all kinds of ways” as only referring to “all kinds of ways that will penalize religious folks that I despise”.
Regards,
Shodan
I think it ranks higer than evolution. We require immigrants to learn something about US History before they can become citizens. We don’t require that they learn evoltution. Why do you think that is?
That’s a perfect of example of why reading comprehension is a more important skill to have than is knowledge of evolution.
I believe in a well-rounded education. Mathematics, science, history…the usual stuff. My kid will learn about evolution if I have to teach it to her myself. But, I am not so narrow-minded as to think that if a kid has made it through HS without learning about evolution that somehow they are not fit to enter society. I’m sure they will muddle through somehow without it. My dad was a fairly successful person. He is a lawyer. He probably couldn’t tell you much of anything about evolution. I really don’t think this has hurt him in any way.
By the way, you never answered my question. Why is evolution a “hugely important” subject-- just as important as reading? What happens to someone who misses out on learning evolution in school?
If there isn’t a specific law prohibiting it, it’s legal.
They can legally take the book away. Maybe this a state thing but I was told in one of my training seminars when I was working in public schools that parents can legal confiscate anything their minor children possess at any time, even if the child paid for it.
It might as well, as far as I’m concerned.
About the same. Evolution is probably marginally more important. Trying to rank these things on a hierarchy kind of misses the point. A subject is either essential or non-essential. It doesn’t matter if you think they’re all equally essential.
I don’t know if it IS the same but I think it SHOULD be.
I have no idea what you mean. I haven’t suggested penalizing religious people for anything and I don’t despise them. I married one.
When I say I’m a hardass on educational issues, I mean that I think classes should be harder and more comprehensive, that kids should be more readily held back, that there should be a zero tolerance policy for cheating and plagiarism, etc. I say this as a former public school teacher. I hated the lack of discipline, the tolerance for cheating and truancy and the lack of expectations for the students. None of my opinions in this area has a damn thing to do with religion.
So, how can a parent effectively “forbid” a child from reading about satanism without taking such draconian measures that it wouldn’t be child abuse? The parent would have to forbid him all contact with the outside world.
Of course you think that. You’re an authoritarian social liberal.
Let me ask for a 3rd time-- why is it “essential”?
I don’t think they should have to learn US history either. Most Americans don’t know shit about it, so it seems disingenuous to call it a criterion for being a good citizen.
Because it explains the origin of the human species and is the cornerstone for all life on earth.
They will have missed out on receiving a complete and essential education.
What’s so important about US history?
What’s draconian about taking a book away?
There are some parents who do try to inuslate their kids from the outside world, by the way. I’ve seen it. Some (SOME, not all, don’t jump on my ass) of these homeschool communities are almost cultlike in their fear and loathing of the society around them.
You’ll have to explain what I’ve said that’s at all authoritarian.
In order to function in society you need to know how our government works. It’s probably a lot easier to teach about that government if you do so in a historical context, but I’d agree that that history itself is not so important.
Why is it “hugely important” or “essential” to know about the origin of the human species? Saying it’s part of a complete education is circular reasoning-- it’s important because it’s important.
Go back and read the original question. It’s not about taking a book away-- it’s about forbidding access to any information about that subject. That would be impossible to do without taking draconian measures.
You won’t find me disagreeing with that. And I’m sure you know that I think it’s silly and foolish not to want your kids to learn about evolution. I’m just not authoritarian enough to force parents to do so.
I’ve already done that.
Diogenes, please.
You’re backing yourself into a corner and saying silly things.
Learning evolution is more important than learning to read?
Take a deep breath, and admit that if kids don’t learn about evolution society will go on, but if they don’t learn to read we’re back to hitting antelope with sharp rocks.