# Dear American Cops. Look how the real pros do it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933 "2016-06-09T17:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/1 "2016-06-09T17:42:21Z")
Look, first of all, I’m all for every cop going home safe after his shift. I realize America selects it’s cops for the pool of high school graduates, with little or no other skills needed for the job. I realize they are not well trained (economics probably) and that they do their best given what they have. But look at this. Look at how professionals deal with armed thugs who have actually pointed a loaded shotgun at them. In France, a McDonald’s gets robbed. The thugs actually discharge a shotgun in the process. However, unknown to the thugs… > [@](#): > > [there]were 11 members of the GIGN (National Gendarmerie Intervention Group), an elite special operations unit of the national gendarme which specializes in counter-terror and hostage situations. They were having a meal in the restaurant. 11 of the best trained forces in the world. What do they do when they see a robbery? 1. They let the thugs rob the store, (to prevent harm to innocent people) 2. They pursue the thugs after the robbery. > [@](#): > > Nine of them, who were wearing plain clothes but carrying weapons, chased the robbers, > [@](#): > > They caught one when he stumbled on stairs. Unharmed I might add. > [@](#): > > But the other robber, armed with the shotgun, kept running. At one point he took aim at the crack special forces officers, said the prosecutor. Death sentence in America, but not for a group of professionals. > [@](#): > > The GIGN officers yelled at him to stop and fired warning shots to deter him Warning shot. non deadly force. Awesome idea! > [@](#): > > But when he took aim again, they responded with a “neutralization shot” to his abdomen. Look, all 9 didn’t open fire in a Bonnie and Clyde style massacre. They “neutralized the robber with a shot.” A shot. I assume that means one. Totally awesome that no one died and the guilty villains are alive to face a judge. I applaud professional police work when I see it, and these officers are pure professionals. There was no herd mentality for this group of armed officers. All 9 didn’t empty their magazines, American style, at the thug when he pointed a shotgun at them. I salute you guys. Well done. Story and text omitted from clips here. > **[French robbers pick the wrong McDonald’s | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/09/europe/france-mcdonalds-special-forces-trnd/index.html)** > > Two hapless criminals picked the wrong place when they held up a McDonald’s in France. Eleven armed members of an elite paramilitary force were inside. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/2 "2016-06-09T17:44:13Z")
Where did those warning shots wind up? Do French bullets disintegrate harmlessly if they miss their target? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/3 "2016-06-09T17:51:52Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Look, first of all, I’m all for every cop going home safe after his shift. I realize America selects it’s cops for the pool of high school graduates, with little or no other skills needed for the job. I realize they are not well trained (economics probably) and that they do their best given what they have. But look at this. Look at how professionals deal with armed thugs who have actually pointed a loaded shotgun at them. So your comparing a unit thats the equivalent of the FBI’s HRT team, to street cops. But we will dial it down a bit, and say that its a standard police swat team, instead. The French unit based its decision on the amount of civillians that could get injured, and engaged after the robbery. Why would you think an American unit would not do the same. Declan ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/4 "2016-06-09T17:51:56Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Where did those warning shots wind up? Do French bullets disintegrate harmlessly if they miss their target? Yeah, aren’t cops trained to not fire warning shots and to shoot only if they intend to hit their target? It seems to me that warning shots would be dangerous to any innocent passers-by. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/5 "2016-06-09T17:55:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Warning shot. non deadly force. Awesome idea! “warning shots” are a horrible idea. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/6 "2016-06-09T17:58:53Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yeah, aren’t cops trained to not fire warning shots and to shoot only if they intend to hit their target? It seems to me that warning shots would be dangerous to any innocent passers-by. You use subsonic ammo. That way, the sound of the shot reaches the perp before the bullet. ---
**Author:** ![moldmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@moldmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moldmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/7 "2016-06-09T18:01:11Z")
Apples to oranges, by your own account these were elite officers not street cops. I’m not sure about the lack of training and education comments. Don’t most police have to attend an academy? These studies show 45-48% of officers have 4-year degrees. > **[Do cops need college?](https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2015/do-cops-need-college)** > > College-educated cops are dissatisfied with the job and their bosses, but also tend to use less force on citizens, an MSU criminologist finds. William Terrill's research is the most comprehensive to date and is starting to paint a broader picture of... > **[Higher Education and Local Law Enforcement | FBI: Law Enforcement Bulletin](https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/higher-education-and-local-law-enforcement)** > > Police officers often view college education as a luxury worth pursuing. The question now is how to improve access to higher education and ensure it meets the requirements of modern law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/8 "2016-06-09T18:08:36Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I applaud professional police work when I see it, and these officers are pure professionals. There was no herd mentality for this group of armed officers. All 9 didn’t empty their magazines, American style, at the thug when he pointed a shotgun at them. I salute you guys. Well done. Would you say that these French police officers were professional? > [@](#): > > The video, which went viral on Wednesday, shows a visibly distressed man, who has two prosthetic legs and is missing an arm, sitting partially undressed on the platform of a train station in Paris. His prosthetic legs, clothes and belongings are scattered around him and three policemen stand over him. They hand him back his clothes, then walk away despite requests for help from the man who fimed the video. > **[Scandal over video of French police’s treatment of amputee](https://observers.france24.com/en/20160505-video-french-police-racist-profiling-amputee)** > [@](#): > > The number of Marseille police suspected of involvement in corruption rose to 30 on monday, following the suspension of an additional 18 officers from a unit in the southern French port. > **[Marseille police corruption scandal deepens as 30 officers suspended](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9594587/Marseille-police-corruption-scandal-deepens-as-30-officers-suspended.html)** > > The number of Marseille police suspected of involvement in corruption rose to 30 on monday, following the suspension of an additional 18 officers from a unit in the southern French port. > [@](#): > > UK-bound migrants and asylum seekers in the northern French port city of Calais have told a prominent rights group that they are routinely beaten and pepper-sprayed by police, allegations law enforcement officials in France categorically deny. > **[Migrants describe police brutality in French city of Calais](https://www.france24.com/en/20150120-calais-france-migrants-denounce-police-brutality-hrw)** > > UK-bound migrants and asylum seekers in the northern French port city of Calais have told a prominent rights group that they are routinely beaten and pepper-sprayed by police, allegations law enforcement… > [@](#): > > Water cannons and tear gas have been used against protesters in Southern France. Public anger over police brutality is boiling over in France following the death of an environmental activist killed by a police stun grenade last month. [https://www.rt.com/news/208015-france-police-violence-protest/](https://www.rt.com/news/208015-france-police-violence-protest/) ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/9 "2016-06-09T18:14:13Z")
Given the not-very-subtle tone of the OP, I think this post is better suited for the Pit. Off it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/10 "2016-06-09T18:20:53Z")
11 of them, huh? 9 armed? Well then, I see no reason 1 lone beat cop shouldn’t be expected to act in the exact same manner. ---
**Author:** ![Squallous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Squallous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squallous)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/11 "2016-06-09T18:26:08Z")
Two things are clear from the OP: - you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about - you don’t like (American) cops Other than that you don’t make any good points. 2/10, weak sauce. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/12 "2016-06-09T18:27:51Z")
> [@moldmonkey](#): > > Apples to oranges, by your own account these were elite officers not street cops. Plus we don’t even know if the suspects were black or not. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/13 "2016-06-09T18:31:38Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yeah, aren’t cops trained to not fire warning shots and to shoot only if they intend to hit their target? It seems to me that warning shots would be dangerous to any innocent passers-by. This is simple. Warning shots are extremely hazardous to civilians. You fire a weapon into the air, that bullet has to come down somewhere. And if it takes out a kid in doing so, the fit will hit the shan. Much safer to just shoot the perp. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/14 "2016-06-09T18:50:44Z")
Do we know that they were warning shots, or did they just miss? > [@](#): > > But when he took aim again, they responded with a “neutralization shot” to his abdomen. Police in the US are, I believe, trained to shoot for center mass. Not sure how this is different from what these French para-militaries did. Still, good on the gendarmes for doing this. Seems a good argument for concealed carry. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/15 "2016-06-09T18:51:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Look, first of all, I’m all for every cop going home safe after his shift. “his shift”? You are a filthy misogynist. And stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/16 "2016-06-09T18:58:18Z")
Just this last week a person with a large dog was subdued, and the dog subdued and NOT HARMED by police in northern Minnesota. Cop was bitten and still did not shoot the dog. Compare and contrast to asshole cops who shoot pets on sight and claim it was out of fear for their own safety. [http://kstp.com/news/stearns-county-dog-bite-deputy/4160306/](http://kstp.com/news/stearns-county-dog-bite-deputy/4160306/) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/17 "2016-06-09T19:04:38Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Look, first of all, I’m all for every cop going home safe after his shift. I realize America selects it’s cops for the pool of high school graduates, with little or no other skills needed for the job. I realize they are not well trained (economics probably) and that they do their best given what they have. As others said, you’ve no idea what the requirements are for being a police officer in the US. For the NYPD, the requirements are: “Be 21 or older Be a US citizen Have either 60 hours of college credit with a minimum 2.0 GPA, or have 2 years of full-time, active duty US military service (with honorable discharge and a high school diploma or GED) Reside in New York City or Suffolk, Westchester, Orange, Rockland, Nassau or Putnam County Pass a drug test Pass a background and character investigation Pass a medical and psychological evaluation Have a valid New York State driver’s license” Once you meet those requirements, you have six months of training at the police academy. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/18 "2016-06-09T19:05:41Z")
So you have two robbers and only one has a shotgun. That’s not really how it is likely to work in a very heavily armed citizenry like the US. The shotgun was probably what they could get their hands on in France. What kind of shotgun? A birding gun? A sawed off one that is only accurate within a room? What was it shooting? Shot? Slugs? Probably wasn’t one of the street sweeper types that are available in the US. So some elite, well trained cops sized up the situation and determined that the guy with a birding gun was little actual threat and acted appropriately. In the US cops must assume that the bad guys may be heavily armed, with even better guns than they have. This is a real apples to oranges comparison. 11 well trained guys who recognize the limited potential threat of one shotgun. And it is also apples to oranges to compare the US to France. I only have 3 high powered rifles, what would be called ‘sniper’ rifles elsewhere but are just for hunting big game, one target .22 pistol and my favorite FN 5.7 pistol, which tends to cause the makers of ballistic vests to lose sleep. And I would be out gunned by most of the homes in my very peaceful rural neighborhood. All very nice people. Even the ‘soccer moms’ might be armed here. The North Hollywood bank robbery in 1997 exposed just how out gunned local police department were at that time. > **[North Hollywood shootout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout)** > > The North Hollywood shootout was a confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers, Larry Phillips Jr. and Emil Mătăsăreanu, and members of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles, California, United States on February 28, 1997. Both robbers were killed, twelve police officers and eight civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the r... A local cop that I knew got killed recently while making an arrest because a guy pulled a gun on him while they were tussling on the ground and shot him under his vest or through it. Shoot first and ask questions later is still the reality. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/19 "2016-06-09T19:10:08Z")
Another thing. In the US, the stereotypical cop hangout is the local donut shop. (Historically, donut shops were one of the few places open 24 hours, so police might be found there late at night getting coffee.) I guess if your OP is good for anything, we can at least learn that in France, the cops hang out at McDonalds. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933/20 "2016-06-09T19:10:11Z")
Why is this a good outcome? If the suspect aimed a gun at the cops, he deserves to die. Now you have one more fucking mouth for the taxpayers to feed. I’d rather have dead criminals, tbh. And warning shots are stupid and dangerous. Some French kid takes a bullet to the skull thanks to a “warning shot,” and see how much good it does. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-american-cops-look-how-the-real-pros-do-it/756933.md?page=2)