# Dear Bowe Bergdahl **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 21, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681 "2017-01-21T01:57:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/1 "2017-01-21T01:57:07Z")
Dear Bowe: Hope you’ve learned an important lesson: if a traitor wants a Presidential pardon, he needs to put on lipstick and a dress. PS Too late now- won’t work with Trump. But might work with President Booker in 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/2 "2017-01-21T02:11:13Z")
Commutation not pardon. Bergdahl, might still get off easier than Manning. There’s some interesting [legal drama](http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/politics/bowe-bergdahl-court-martial-charges/) where the investigating officer recommended against imprisonment and a preliminary hearing recommended against a bad conduct discharge. The Court martial convening authority still chose to pursue a General Court Martial. Those very lenient recommendations to the convening authority make me think when this all plays out Manning’s time served will have been worse. ---
**Author:** ![Allecher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@Allecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allecher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/3 "2017-01-22T22:26:01Z")
> [@](#): > > when this all plays out Manning’s time served will have been worse. Well, if you don’t count Bergdahl’s time in captivity. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/4 "2017-01-22T22:45:01Z")
Yeah, after you’ve been a guest of the Taliban for a couple of years, how bad can Ft Leavenworth seem? Keeping him in jail is probably better for him than putting him on the streets. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/5 "2017-01-22T22:48:32Z")
Remember: Whenever Obama commuted someones sentence, always replace the word “commute” with “pardon”. The fact that they still did time and have the conviction on their record doesn’t mean anything. The important thing is to use the word “pardon” instead. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/6 "2017-01-22T23:20:02Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Remember: Whenever Obama commuted someones sentence, always replace the word “commute” with “pardon”. > > The fact that they still did time and have the conviction on their record doesn’t mean anything. The important thing is to use the word “pardon” instead. It’s not an Obama thing. I’ve seen many people use both words interchangeably and usually wrong. Regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum a lot of people seem to have trouble differentiating between the two. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/7 "2017-01-23T00:02:42Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Dear Bowe: > > Hope you’ve learned an important lesson: if a traitor wants a Presidential pardon, he needs to put on lipstick and a dress. > > PS Too late now- won’t work with Trump. But might work with President Booker in 4 years. Trump won’t pardon him, but he might rape him. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/8 "2017-01-23T02:13:03Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Dear Bowe: > > Hope you’ve learned an important lesson: if a traitor wants a Presidential pardon, he needs to put on lipstick and a dress. You do realize that there are transgender Dopers here who might object to your characterization of people like them, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/9 "2017-01-23T03:08:44Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > You do realize that there are transgender Dopers here who might object to your characterization of people like them, don’t you? Will it make them happy if I say Manning should spend the rest of his/her life in a women’s prison? Manning is a traitor. Period. And if he were still an ostensibly straight male, there’s no way Obama would have released him. Period. Which means a traitor got off lighter by putting on a dress. Which is bullshit. Which part do you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/10 "2017-01-23T03:36:34Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Which part do you disagree with? That being transgendered is the reason she was pardoned. That being transgendered is “putting on a dress.” So aside from your two main points, you’re all set. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/11 "2017-01-23T03:45:57Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Will it make them happy if I say Manning should spend the rest of his/her life in a women’s prison? > > Manning is a traitor. Period. > > And if he were still an ostensibly straight male, there’s no way Obama would have released him. Period. > > Which means a traitor got off lighter by putting on a dress. Which is bullshit. > > Which part do you disagree with? Why do you think this has anything to do with gender? What do you base that off of? I’ve only heard one compelling argument, and it was for the opposite reason that you’re suggesting. That argument suggests she was released so that the government would not have to pay for the hormone treatment and sex reassignment surgery both of which are now provided by the military for Soldiers with gender identity issues. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/12 "2017-01-23T07:28:51Z")
Naked bigotry is just alternative facts, donchaknow. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/13 "2017-01-23T13:03:32Z")
**astorian** , you have taken a complex issue and reduced it down to a snide anti-transgender comment. This is jerkish and does not belong in this forum. It poisons the well for good discussion and the forum prevents people from responding in kind. I will give this thread a chance to develop as a discussion of Bowe Bergdahl and Chelsea Manning, but if additional anti-transgender comments are made I will send this to the pit. **Everyone else** , you can discuss the relevance of Chelsea’s transgender status as it may pertain to the commutation of her sentence, but let’s drop the criticism of **astorian**. You have the Pit available for that. No warning issued at this time. > [@astorian](#): > > Dear Bowe: > > Hope you’ve learned an important lesson: if a traitor wants a Presidential pardon, he needs to put on lipstick and a dress. > > PS Too late now- won’t work with Trump. But might work with President Booker in 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/14 "2017-01-23T13:11:11Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > **astorian** , you have taken a complex issue and reduced it down to a snide anti-transgender comment. This is jerkish and does not belong in this forum. It poisons the well for good discussion and the forum prevents people from responding in kind. > > I will give this thread a chance to develop as a discussion of Bowe Bergdahl and Chelsea Manning, but if additional anti-transgender comments are made I will send this to the pit. > > **Everyone else** , you can discuss the relevance of Chelsea’s transgender status as it may pertain to the commutation of her sentence, but let’s drop the criticism of **astorian**. You have the Pit available for that. > > No warning issued at this time. Suit yourself. You have the “power” to warn me or ban me on a whim. You don’t have the power to make me feel guilty for stating an obvious truth, nor can you make me take you seriously. A traitor got off easy because he moved himself into an Officially Recognized Victim Group. A heterosexual male Bradley Manning would remain in prison indefinitely, and you KNOW that. Traitors don’t deserve special treatment due to their sexual quirks. If you think an obvious truth like this is hate speech, you can take whatever steps you like. There are plenty of other web sites where I can kill time. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/15 "2017-01-23T13:14:51Z")
I don’t care what you think or feel, just what you choose to post. If you want to slam Chelsea Manning, take it to the Pit. This was the wrong forum. Now, drop it or take it to ATMB. > [@astorian](#): > > Suit yourself. You have the “power” to warn me or ban me on a whim. You don’t have the power to make me feel guilty for stating an obvious truth, nor can you make me take you seriously. > > A traitor got off easy because he moved himself into an Officially Recognized Victim Group. A heterosexual male Bradley Manning would remain in prison indefinitely, and you KNOW that. Traitors don’t deserve special treatment due to their sexual quirks. > > If you think an obvious truth like this is hate speech, you can take whatever steps you like. There are plenty of other web sites where I can kill time. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/16 "2017-01-23T14:44:43Z")
What exactly is being moderated here? Is the suggestion that Manning got off easier because she is transgender a problem? I think this is very likely true, if not definitively knowable, and can’t think of why this opinion would violate any sort of rule. I assume it’s the reference to transgender as “put on lipstick and a dress”. But please confirm. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/17 "2017-01-23T15:56:55Z")
**Further moderation comments need to go to ATMB.** Yes, it is the characterization of “lipstick and a dress” that is an issue for this forum. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What exactly is being moderated here? > > Is the suggestion that Manning got off easier because she is transgender a problem? I think this is very likely true, if not definitively knowable, and can’t think of why this opinion would violate any sort of rule. > > I assume it’s the reference to transgender as “put on lipstick and a dress”. But please confirm. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/18 "2017-01-23T16:07:34Z")
Wait, I’m confused… Conservatives used Bowe Bergdahl as a poster child for Obama’s failure to rescue hostages held by the Taliban. Obama authorised a rescue mission, which was successful. Conservatives were angry, because now they considered Bergdahl a deserter. Now Conservatives seem to be angry that Bergdahl is in prison. So is Bergdahl, to Conservatives, a good guy, or a bad guy? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/19 "2017-01-23T16:15:39Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Dear Bowe: > > Hope you’ve learned an important lesson: if a traitor wants a Presidential pardon, he needs to put on lipstick and a dress. > > PS Too late now- won’t work with Trump. But might work with President Booker in 4 years. This has got to be one of the most stupid things I’ve ever read. It must take an incredibly strained reading of the facts for you to conclude that the significant difference between the two cases is Manning’s sexual identity, this speaks volumes to your ability to analyse. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681/20 "2017-01-23T16:24:29Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Wait, I’m confused… > > Conservatives used Bowe Bergdahl as a poster child for Obama’s failure to rescue hostages held by the Taliban. > > Obama authorised a rescue mission, which was successful. Conservatives were angry, because now they considered Bergdahl a deserter. > > Now Conservatives seem to be angry that Bergdahl is in prison. > > So is Bergdahl, to Conservatives, a good guy, or a bad guy? 😕 Ok point by point. While Bergdahl was missing very few outside of the military knew the backstory. Since the Army wanted him back regardless and the circumstances of his desertion were not proven in a court of law it was not released. It was an open secret in the military and widely discussed in military forums. So civilians saw Bergdahl carried on the missing and captured rolls and said “Why isn’t Obama doing something to rescue our boy?” Most in the military were saying, “Fuck that traitor.” It was only after his release that the story became widely known. There was no rescue mission. Obama exchanged 5 terrorists for 1 traitor. Bergdahl is not in prison. He is out free awaiting trial and still getting his full salary and benefits as an active duty soldier. People are angry (in particular vets and soldiers) that it is taking a very long time for him to go to trial. Bad guy or good guy? Civilian conservatives who didn’t know the full story first thought he was a good guy who was captured and now know he was a deserter. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-bowe-bergdahl/777681.md?page=2)