# Dear Brother: Fuck Completely Off!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645 "2004-08-26T18:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/81 "2004-08-27T04:28:53Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I don’t believe that would be effective prevention. I believe it would be more damaging to my relationship with my kid than any POSSIBLE value it may have as prevention. But all he’s doing is making it clear that doing something dire enough to end up in jail is unacceptable and would denote the point at which the child has to start fixing his own problems. If the child still ends up in jail, then he knows what he has to do…fix his own problem. It’s not THAT hard to stay out of jail. I know a great number of people who’ve managed it their entire lives without a great deal of effort (myself included). It’s not like **Stuffy** set an impossibly high bar for cessation of parental swooping-in-to-fix. If, for instance, the rule had been “If you outgrow your shoes, don’t bother to ask me for new ones” (something the child can’t help) or “If you don’t cut every blade of grass in the yard to exactly 1/2”, don’t bother coming back into the house ever" (something so impossibly exacting that no one could manage it to satisfaction), I’d see your point. But it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/82 "2004-08-27T04:32:31Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I don’t believe that would be effective prevention. I believe it would be more damaging to my relationship with my kid than any POSSIBLE value it may have as prevention. And yet, numerous other posters have come in with stories about how their fathers told them the exact same thing, and none of them seem to be bearing any grudges. So what, pray tell, is your _basis_ for this belief? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/83 "2004-08-27T04:43:37Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It’s not THAT hard to stay out of jail. I know a great number of people who’ve managed it their entire lives without a great deal of effort (myself included). Ah, you’re one of _them_. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/84 "2004-08-27T04:50:41Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Ah, you’re one of _them_. :dubious: Well, admittedly, I don’t have the skin tone to be arrested for Driving While Black or any of the number of other bogus reasons that some police organizations have for placing men of color behind bars for a day or so, but I’m fairly sure that these kind of situations are other exceptions to **Stuffy’s** rule… ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/85 "2004-08-27T04:53:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Well, admittedly, I don’t have the skin tone to be arrested for Driving While Black or any of the number of other bogus reasons that some police organizations have for placing men of color behind bars for a day or so, but I’m fairly sure that these kind of situations are other exceptions to **Stuffy’s** rule… No, you’re taking it too seriously. I was making a sort of (obviously failed) joke that you are one of those I was astonished to find had not spent a night or two in jail as a teenager. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/86 "2004-08-27T04:57:17Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > No, you’re taking it too seriously. I was making a sort of (obviously failed) joke that you are one of those I was astonished to find had not spent a night or two in jail as a teenager. I got it. Really! 🙂 I just wanted to clarify my previous post and you gave me the opening. ---
**Author:** ![dry\_gear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@dry\_gear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dry_gear)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/87 "2004-08-27T05:06:10Z")
All right, **lissener** , what is the problem? Is it that the OP wouldn’t bail his son out of jail if he got in trouble with the law? You seem to think that that would amount to abandonment. Or do you have a problem with him telling them not to call him? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/88 "2004-08-27T05:10:07Z")
Incidentally, how old do you have to be to spend a night in jail? It’s not like **Stuffy** is leaving a little kid in the lock-up; he’s at least sixteen, since he was driving a car when he was arrested. Maybe older. Sixteen is plenty old enough to be expected to follow the law, and to bear the consequences on his own if he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/89 "2004-08-27T05:21:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Incidentally, how old do you have to be to spend a night in jail? In 1972? Fifteen. Me and Ronnie and some guy I can’t remember his name were drunk and doing donuts in the technical school parking lot at midnight. They cut us loose in the morning - no harm, no foul - except Ronnie gained a set of bruises from being a smartass. Then the other guy walked five miles back to his car, and Ronnie and I went and planted tobacco all day. I’d have rather stayed in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/90 "2004-08-27T06:02:59Z")
Update: According to the police, my stepson will be released tommorrow morning on his own recoginizance, in anticipation of the DA dropping the charges, if they don’t do it at the time. According to them, my brother was telling a somewhat odd version of the truth. The car does indeed belong to his girlfriend, however he took the car after beating her up. So they’re still looking for him, he is the person actually known to have stolen the car. I’m too tired to address eveyone tonight but I will clear up a few things quickly. My stepson is 18, he doesn’t live with us anymore but has a roommate; they apparently see my brother often, as he works at a carwash not far from where he and his roomate live. My stepson is kind of naive in that he’s very trusting, it wouldn’t occur to him to ask said Uncle, despite his history, if the car was stolen. Another thing is that he’s the child of my Ex (currently in jail in case you weren’t following along) but I came into his life when he was 4, and I’ve been his only Dad ever since. He’s spent time in a group home afer his mother proved incapable of supervising him, and wouldn’t relent to releasing him to my custody, but after a long fight he was eventually released to me. He’s a good kid, with a lot of baggage no one his age should have to deal with. I spoke with him a little while ago, he sounded a little depressed and scared but says he’s fine. As for my parenting skills, I’ll deal with that tommorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/91 "2004-08-27T10:51:13Z")
> [@furlibusea](#): > > While I will agree that it is not something I would say to my daughter, it could work for some kids. I remember reading someone on the board ( and I have bad CRS today so not sure who) saying that his father had told him this very thing. He was kind of a wild kid, and this threat kept him slightly within the bounds of more or less straight. He wound up a Dr. or a teacher (I just can’t remember which of the two posters I think it was) **Master Wang-Ka**. **Stuffy** , I’m so glad to hear that your stepson will be okay. I was planning to bake him a file cake if it came to that. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/92 "2004-08-27T11:13:44Z")
**Stuffy** , good luck. It seems your son has a very good dad and an uncle he will now know better about. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/93 "2004-08-27T11:16:20Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I’m late to the party (as usual) but I just have to comment on these quotes… You think that driving a stolen car should not be a crime? Or do you believe that “My uncle loaned it to me” should be a get out jail free phrase? Why disrupt his life? Well for one thing he was driving a stolen car. Last time I checked this is against the law. When you break the law the police have a tendency to arrest you. Why should the DA compensate a person who is guilty of a crime (possession of stolen property) for being in jail pending bail? Yeah, you’re late. I love it when you skim-reading knee-jerkers just don’t have time to examine the context of a sequence of posts before you feel compelled by the sheer force of your self-righteousness to swoop into a thread and save the day — pointing out for all us dim-wits how we might see things differently if only we’d see things your way. Well, first, a big hearty “Fuck you!” Second, any system that throws every person into the same dungeon based on the judgment of an _enforcement_ official is ethically bereft. Third, it wasn’t just the kid who said his uncle loaned it to him, it was a citizen in good standing from the community. Fourth, this is just a travesty of common sense. Boys who steal cars don’t pull into their father’s driveway with a police cruiser tailing behind them. The kid’s uncle has a record of criminal activity going back to the Stone Age. And Stuffy presents the demeanor and temperament of a good and loving parent who is concerned, not just with the safety and well-being of his children, but with molding their character to make them better citizens. Hell, we weren’t even there, and all but the deadest brains among us — I’m looking at you, Lissener — completely grok what’s going on, so what the fuck was the problem with these Keystone Cops? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/94 "2004-08-27T11:19:59Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > As for my parenting skills, I’ll deal with that tommorrow. Please don’t take on that burden. There is one lone jackass — a hand-wringing nutjob from the “It Takes A Village” school — who thinks that he knows how to raise other people’s kids better than they do themselves. There is no problem with your parenting skills. You are in fact an example for us all. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/95 "2004-08-27T11:38:41Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > Update: According to the police, my stepson will be released tommorrow morning on his own recoginizance, in anticipation of the DA dropping the charges, if they don’t do it at the time. I hope all goes well, there. I’m glad it sounds to have a minimum of consequences for your stepson, and I’m sorry he had to get caught up in this. Hang tough, **Stuffy** , and **step-Stuffy**. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/96 "2004-08-27T11:41:56Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal…it wasn’t just the kid who said his uncle loaned it to him, it was a citizen in good standing from the community. Fourth, this is just a travesty of common sense. Boys who steal cars don’t pull into their father’s driveway with a police cruiser tailing behind them. The kid’s uncle has a record of criminal activity going back to the Stone Age. And Stuffy presents the demeanor and temperament of a good and loving parent who is concerned, not just with the safety and well-being of his children, but with molding their character to make them better citizens. [/QUOTE] You make it sound as if a neighbor brought **Stuffy** ’s stepson home because he thought StepStuffy was the kid who had egged his house the night before. How long do you think the cops had to evaluate **Stuffy** ’s demeanor and temperament? Judging by his posts, he does seem to be a fine person. But the arresting officers don’t know his posting history, or anything about him. They just know they have a stolen car in their possession. They might not know the brother’s history either. And **Stuffy** naming his brother doesn’t automatically exonerate StepStuffy. Doesn’t rule out the possibility that Brother has been “training” him, without **Stuffy** even knowing about it. There is a process to be followed, and it has to be the same process for everyone. Or is it okay with you if a teenager steals **your** car, and the cops let him go because **his** dad says it couldn’t have been him? **Stuffy** said that the cops were sympathetic. They took down relevant information; they believed him. They didn’t try to beat a confession out of StepStuffy. They detained him as they are required to do by law, but that’s all they did. The charges are almost certain to be dropped, but if they’re not, the cops didn’t prevent it from happening. Their authority ends when StepStuffy is released from the jail. Unfortunately, however, but inevitably, it begins when they have a reason to **suspect** someone. And “boys who steal cars don’t pull into their father’s driveway with a police cruiser tailing behind them”? Where do you get that? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/97 "2004-08-27T12:13:52Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Fourth, this is just a travesty of common sense. Boys who steal cars don’t pull into their father’s driveway with a police cruiser tailing behind them. ? _That’s_ what I was doing wrong! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/98 "2004-08-27T12:37:46Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Wow, what an asshole. Your first post in this thread, WOW. Not even a request for clarification first. You could have at least asked the OP for his reasons before jumping all over him. Who’s the asshole? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/99 "2004-08-27T13:29:50Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > As for my parenting skills, I’ll deal with that tommorrow. If by “deal with” you mean continue fighting the good fight and raising your kids to be fine, upstanding citizens, have at it. On the other hand, if you mean you’re going to come back here and continue to explain yourself to the poster child for people who seriously need to get the fuck over themselves, I strongly suggest you save your energy. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645/100 "2004-08-27T14:02:55Z")
> [@](#): > > originally posted by **Rilchiam** > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by furlibusea > > While I will agree that it is not something I would say to my daughter, it could work for some kids. I remember reading someone on the board ( and I have bad CRS today so not sure who) saying that his father had told him this very thing… > > **Master Wang-Ka**. Thank you. I knew it was someone who’s posts i respected alot, but just wasn’t coming up with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-brother-fuck-completely-off/261645.md?page=6)