# Dear CNN et al.: Stop calling the Phelps family a "Church." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982 "2011-02-03T03:16:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/21 "2011-02-03T15:31:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What if CNN reporters made the “air quotes” gesture every time they said “church”. Good enough? That would work, along with an extra sarcastic tone and raised eyebrows. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/22 "2011-02-03T15:52:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What if CNN reporters made the “air quotes” gesture every time they said “church”. Good enough? I don’t know if it would be good enough for CNN, but it’s good enough for me. I’m stealing this. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/23 "2011-02-03T15:52:52Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > [The rules](http://www.t-tlaw.com/cf-14.htm) Huh. Seems like it would be pretty easy to set something up to avoid paying taxes. Why isn’t that more popular, I wonder? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/24 "2011-02-03T16:01:46Z")
I like that they tar all churches with the Phelps brush. I’d rather they get no attention from the press but they are a church, different only in the extremity of their views. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/25 "2011-02-03T16:10:37Z")
Yeah, seems odd to me. SDMB is generally for self-identification, unless it’s self-identification by someone whose beliefs you find loathsome, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/26 "2011-02-03T16:18:24Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > That’s still no reason to _call_ them a church. It’s not like CNN is objective, anyway. Right. If a mom-and-pop store insisted on calling themselves a megacorporation, should CNN have to do that, too? ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/27 "2011-02-03T16:46:30Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Huh. Seems like it would be pretty easy to set something up to avoid paying taxes. Why isn’t that more popular, I wonder? 😕 Because while it would exempt donation to the church, it wouldn’t exempt your income from a job. Now, if you have the time to set up and maintain an organized structure, and convince people to give you enough money that you don’t need another job, you might be able to get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/28 "2011-02-03T16:52:43Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Right. If a mom-and-pop store insisted on calling themselves a megacorporation, should CNN have to do that, too? Because one meets the definition and one doesn’t. The M&P store isn’t an extremely large and powerful corporation but the Phelps church apparently meets the definition of a church. It doesn’t seem that hard. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/29 "2011-02-03T16:54:30Z")
I didn’t know there were rules. I just thought any crazy person in a robe could get a handful of followers, et voilà. I can cobble together most of this shit fairly easily, but I can see some potential roadblocks. “2. A recognized creed and form of worship” - Recognized by who? Can I recognize myself? “5. A distinct religious history” - Define “history.” Is the time between me deciding to start a church and actually starting it history? Need answers fast! I have a church to start. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/30 "2011-02-03T17:28:18Z")
MeanOldLady, you don’t have to start a whole religion, just a church. You just don’t want to go with a centralized religion like Catholicism, the hierarchy will be bugging you all the time about the stuff you say. Anything vague and nondenominational that uses the Bible would probably do it. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/31 "2011-02-03T17:38:25Z")
Don’t they identify as “Westboro Baptist Church”? I would think the rest of the Baptists would get together and sue Westboro for slander or ex-communicate them or something. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/32 "2011-02-03T17:40:58Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Don’t they identify as “Westboro Baptist Church”? I would think the rest of the Baptists would get together and sue Westboro for slander or ex-communicate them or something. The rest of the Baptists don’t really disagree with the purported beliefs of Phelps in terms of how homosexuals are subhumans and deserving of persecution/violence. The only reason this powerless fringe group has attracted condemnation, whereas the other 100 million American religionists who hate homosexuals are to be treated with “civility” as legitimate participants in a debate, is because Phelps says negative things about American soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/33 "2011-02-03T18:02:15Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > The rest of the Baptists don’t really disagree with the purported beliefs of Phelps in terms of how homosexuals are subhumans and deserving of persecution/violence. The only reason this powerless fringe group has attracted condemnation, whereas the other 100 million American religionists who hate homosexuals are to be treated with “civility” as legitimate participants in a debate, is because Phelps says negative things about American soldiers. For that reason you’d think they’d want to disassociate themselves with the Phelps group. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/34 "2011-02-03T18:10:45Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > MeanOldLady, you don’t have to start a whole religion, just a church. You just don’t want to go with a centralized religion like Catholicism, the hierarchy will be bugging you all the time about the stuff you say. Anything vague and nondenominational that uses the Bible would probably do it. 501(c)(3 status, here I come! [QUOTE=[http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf](http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf)] To qualify for tax-exempt status, such an organization must meet the following requirements (covered in greater detail throughout this publication): ■ the organization must be organized and operated exclusively for religious, educational, scientific, or other charitable purposes, ■ net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any private individual or shareholder, ■ no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation, ■ the organization may not intervene in political campaigns, and ■ the organization’s purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy. [/QUOTE] Wait – “net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any private individual or shareholder.” Now I _know_ there’s a way around this. Man, my church is gonna be so effing awesome. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/35 "2011-02-03T18:18:11Z")
You take a salary of course. And don’t forget the large communion chalice of sanctified whisky and the holy beer nuts… paid for from the collection plate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/36 "2011-02-03T18:20:18Z")
> [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](#): > > I think a better solution would be for CNN to not offer them a headline at all. Ding ding ding. There is absolutely no reason to cover the WBC at all. They have no influence on public policy or discourse, they are not popular, and they are 100% predictable. News outlets should ignore them, period. They’re not even worth Pitting, let alone coverage on national news networks. It’s too bad networks spend time on these people purely out of the hope the coverage will upset someone who can’t do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/37 "2011-02-03T18:20:42Z")
> [@Pixiesnix](#): > > “Phelps Cult to Protest Funeral.” Works for me. The definitive difference between a “church” and a “cult” is that the former is widely considered respectable and the latter is not; the Phelps jerkoffs certainly fall into the “not” category. ---
**Author:** ![EristicKallistic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@EristicKallistic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EristicKallistic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/38 "2011-02-03T18:21:41Z")
Well sure. Any salary you pay to yourself as Maximum Leader and Divinely-Inspired Prophet don’t count as “net earnings”, those are just the expenses of running your church. But AFAIK you’d still have to pay income taxes on them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/39 "2011-02-03T18:47:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > They can call themselves a “Church” but granting them that term confers a legitimacy No, it doesn’t. > [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](#): > > I think a better solution would be for CNN to not offer them a headline at all. Exactly. They are trolls. Your outrage only feeds them. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982/40 "2011-02-03T20:36:35Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Huh. Seems like it would be pretty easy to set something up to avoid paying taxes. Why isn’t that more popular, I wonder? 😕 This was actually a not uncommon tax dodge in the 70s-80s. I am a member of the Universal Life Church (one of those internet things that take a minute to become a minister and has such a super generic dogma that you don’t even have to believe in God), which was one of the big ones used for this purpose. These days it is mostly for people (like me) who want to get around local laws and be able to perform marriage ceremonies for their friends (I have done three), but there was a lot of tax dodging before the federal government came down hard on them. These days they scrutinize individuals pretty closely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cnn-et-al-stop-calling-the-phelps-family-a-church/569982.md?page=3)