Dear Customer, we get many customers weekly who think their situation warrents us eating $20 to $100

[Broomstick]

I think the point was “I’d rather smash this guitar than deal with your bullshit any longer”.

[Cyros]

@SirGalahad

Some store owners or managers are quirky … the was a music store owner I knew (he’s retired now) who loved interacting with local heros and celebrities, but was very uneven in his attitude toward the average walk in customer, and his staff were even worse. They often acted like they didn’t need any new customers. Once I remember him getting annoyed by a customer’s demand for a bigger discount, and ironically made the customer this offer: “I’ll give you any one item in the store at my cost … any item.” Strangely, the customer got some sort of unsettled feeling and basically walked out of the store, why I don’t know. I asked the owner, “Why would you make an offer like that, you have a lot of very expensive and profitable pieces of gear in here?” He said, “I don’t like that guy’s attitude, and I gambled that he’s walk out. If he hadn’t, I would have kept my word.”

I can’t explain the motive for such an action, any more than I could guess why a manager would allegedly damage a high end instrument to make a point (what point?)

I more understand this anecdote as at least the owner is not cutting off his nose to spite his face.

@Broomstick

I think the point was “I’d rather smash this guitar than deal with your bullshit any longer”.

Given the amount of bullshit that I have seen I just have trouble imagining that repeatedly asking for a discount on a guitar that is heavily discounted (implying that the owner/manager wants to move it) and is not selling after a week of being discounted (implying that it is not moving at that price) counts as bullshit enough to take a full loss. Just fire the customer and be done with it.

[Filbert]

I worked at my parents business for years, largely on the door, but no-one ever tried the ‘friend/relative of the owner’ thing on me I was really looking forward to it happening too, the possibilities for snarky comebacks would have been endless…

One of the common annoying ones there was people claiming a ‘family ticket’, which admitted two adults and two children, should cover granny, four adult offspring with partners and 10 brats of various sizes, because “we’re all a family”. Yeah… we’re not charging according to variation in DNA (and despite my pleas, charging by IQ or ability to read signs was deemed too complicated), we’re giving a small discount for a common group combination. You are not getting in for under a quarter of the price, even if you’re identical quads.

Being nice and asking politely might get you a discount, but taking the piss most assuredly will not.

[Jackmannii]

@SirGalahad

Once I remember him getting annoyed by a customer’s demand for a bigger discount, and ironically made the customer this offer: “I’ll give you any one item in the store at my cost … any item.” Strangely, the customer got some sort of unsettled feeling and basically walked out of the store, why I don’t know.

Maybe it’s because true dealer cost is tough to verify. For instance, car dealers promote the idea that they sell their vehicles at “invoice”, which the customer is supposed to believe represents the actual cost to the dealer (in reality, based on manufacturer incentives and such, car dealers still make a sizable profit on what they sell at “invoice”.

[flatlined]

@lorene

Yes, if there’s one thing a person whose livelihood depends on positive customer and employee reviews hates, it’s getting more business as a result of someone giving them accolades in a public forum.

You are 100% right. I have privacy issues and tend to project them. Scottwould probably love to hear that one of his ex-employees still thinks of him as a good and ethical boss.

Lynn, you are so right, “free” pets are usually very expensive.

[NotBob13]

@lazybratsche

Hijack: I used to handle food ordering for a university department function. Payment was handled by invoice basically – I would order a dozen pizzas, and hand the delivery guy a purchasing authorization form thingy. All actual handling of money happened somewhere far away from me; presumably somebody in administration would cut a check to the pizza store at some point.

Anyways, I always felt uneasy because I couldn’t figure out a way to give a tip in this system. (But I didn’t feel nearly so bad that I was willing to pay $20-$40 per week out of my own pocket!) Still, the usual delivery guys seemed happy enough with the situation. I always guessed that since we were paying full list price for every pizza (mostly “expensive” specialty pizzas), the store manager worked something out with the delivery guy. Is that anything like standard practice?

At the Pizza place where I deliver, we take 10-20 pizzas to a nearby school every day that they are in session. They have a sandard tip of about twenty cents per pie. we delivery folk are payed via excess milage payment, and the school settles their account every couple of weeks, including our tips. Your university may have had a similar arrangement, and handled everything via the invoice.

[cosmosdan]

@Cyros

I more understand this anecdote as at least the owner is not cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Given the amount of bullshit that I have seen I just have trouble imagining that repeatedly asking for a discount on a guitar that is heavily discounted (implying that the owner/manager wants to move it) and is not selling after a week of being discounted (implying that it is not moving at that price) counts as bullshit enough to take a full loss. Just fire the customer and be done with it.

Nobody said it was the only way to deal with it, or even the best way. Broomstick got it right the point was " I think the point was “I’d rather smash this guitar than deal with your bullshit any longer”.

and btw, this; “Given that the guitar was not moving it couldn’t have been that great a price” is dead wrong. Something doesn’t automatically sell because it’s a great price. The right customer has to walk through the door that wants that specific item , and recognize that it’s a smoking deal. If someone wants a Les Paul or an American Strat they are not likely to buy a Parker Fly even when it’s half price.
I’ve dealt with customers who use the nag technique and it usually just pisses me off. My polite way of handling it is to say, “I’ve offered you a good price, it’s not getting any lower. Let me know if you want it” and then I walk away.

With one customer when they went lower I started going up from the discount I had offered them. One actually told me she was going to follow me around the store and pester me until I gave in. It’s unbeleiveable how ridiculous some customers can be in pursuit of a couple of bucks.

Another thing, a guitar that has crashed to the floor is not a total loss. It’s just not a new pristine guitar anymore, which was part of the point. A guitar that sold for let’s says $2000 is half price. The guy has been a pain in the ass nag and trying to get this new guitar for $600. CRASH!!! NOW, it’s a $600 guitar, I’m thinking the look on his face was worth it.

[cosmosdan]

@Martin_Hyde

What you describe wouldn’t be foreign here in the United States, but it isn’t something the law requires. Most major retailers that I’ve seen have very generous return policies for defective equipment. But it is up to the retailer, while it isn’t hard and fast from what I’ve seen the smaller the chain (down to mom & pop stores) the less likely they are to be generous on refunds and the more likely you will have to use the manufacturer warranty as your first option.

That being said, it really depends on the item for me if I try to return to the retailer or go through the manufacturer. Like another poster here, I had a problem with a large (already wall mounted) LCD tv I bought about six months prior. It was a Samsung, I could have returned it under the return policy to the big box store where I purchased it. However, the Samsung warranty service actually sends a certified Samsung tech who comes to your house, fixes it at your home, remounts it for you and etc. That’s much more convenient for me than actually hauling it back to the store and having them do an exchange.

For appliances there is also often the concern that big box retailers change their inventory all the time, so the specific appliance you had may not be available any longer, in which case you’d have to accept store credit. That may be exactly what you want (especially if the previous brand/model failed you), but if you actually really liked the model you owned and just want a working one, the manufacturer is much more likely to be able to satisfy you there.

But anytime something small is broken, I take it right back to the retailer. I used to get a lot of defective DVDs from Wal-Mart, it’s a very painless process to come in with the disc and case and tell them “this doesn’t work”, they just nod and tell you to go get a new copy and they’ll scan you out.

I know at one point if you bought major appliances (like washer and dryer, oven etc) from Sears, they’d actually send guys out to fix it for you if it broke. I don’t know if Sears does this anymore as my memory of that is back from when they were a major retailer / going concern instead of a mismanaged hedge fund property.

What store allows you to return a TV 6 months later?

[cosmosdan]

@Jackmannii

The “details” seem to be rather fuzzy. First you gave the example of someone trying to return a defective item six weeks after buying it. Then you said your store will “usually” handle returns made within 30 days. You also asked what a poster thought was a “reasonable” time period for making a return. So it was unclear to me at what point you think it’s on the consumer to deal with the manufacturer, instead of your store handling it.

Hint: have a clearly stated, prominently posted return policy and stick to it. Customers can decide whether what’s acceptable, as opposed to dealing with the whims of the clerks/manager.

The post you responded to had a specific time frame in it.

The poster I responded to didn’t and used the term “reasonable time frame” so I asked. NOBODY mentioned right out of the box did they? If you conflated the two that’s on you.

Six weeks is longer than 30 days.

[Darth_Panda]

@Morgenstern

If you use your credit card for the purchase you have an avenue or recourse against those merchants when a product is defective or doesn’t live up to it’s expectations. It’s easier than fighting with the store or the company. I don’t know if ALL credit cards are like this, but many are.

This. It also keeps me from having to argue with people a lot. Instead of getting upset or getting into some big fight with anyone, I just calmly say “Look, this is what I think you need to do, but I’m not going to argue with you about it. Either you can do it, or I’ll dispute the charge and you can deal with the credit card company.”

Most of the time it works, and if not I figure that if that didn’t work then nothing else probably would have either and I call it a day. Either way, it’s my new go to move and is very nice for the stress levels.

[cosmosdan]

@Darth_Panda

This. It also keeps me from having to argue with people a lot. Instead of getting upset or getting into some big fight with anyone, I just calmly say “Look, this is what I think you need to do, but I’m not going to argue with you about it. Either you can do it, or I’ll dispute the charge and you can deal with the credit card company.”

Most of the time it works, and if not I figure that if that didn’t work then nothing else probably would have either and I call it a day. Either way, it’s my new go to move and is very nice for the stress levels.

What happens is the CC company contacts the store and informs them of the requested charge back and why. The merchant has a chance to respond.

I agree that most of the time it’s not orth any real stress. As a customer I’ve told people, if that’s what you want to do you get to keep my $X but you’ve lost a customer a bought yourself a ton of bad word of mouth advertising for that amount.

As a merchant, we know that’s true so we try to be flexible with policies as part of good advertising and PR. but there are times when the customer is just wrong and you don’t mind discouraging them from coming back.

[Darth_Panda]

@cosmosdan

As a merchant, we know that’s true so we try to be flexible with policies as part of good advertising and PR. but there are times when the customer is just wrong and you don’t mind discouraging them from coming back.

In some ways, this is where it helps me if I’m the one being unreasonable. If the merchant is willing to go through the hassle of fighting the CC company about it, then maybe the problem is with me, and not them. Sometimes I’ll take their willingness to do so as enough of a sign and just drop the matter. I’ve only actually disputed twice (In each case, the vendor just ‘voluntarily’ corrected the problem once I filed the dispute, so I never really had to go all the way through the process).

[DrDeth]

@Steophan

I’m guessing you’re in the US, but this isn’t true worldwide. In the UK, where I am, the contract is with the retailer, not the manufacturer, and if something goes wrong before it could reasonably be expected to, the retailer is liable for replacement or full refund. There may be additional protections offered by the manufacturer, but they don’t override the basic ones.

The retailer then has to return it to the manufacturer and claim their refund or replacement.

.If it break down within a year and the warranty is still good, hell yes I return it to where bought it. They got the profit, then can easily return it to the manufacturer, they have trucks going back weekly. :mad:

[DrDeth]

@Lynn_Bodoni

About 13 or 14 years ago, we adopted an orphan feral kitten. Momcat had been killed, this was the only surviving kitten, and he wasn’t weaned yet. Within a month or so, I believe that kitten cost us about $300, and he hadn’t been socialized, tested, or fixed yet. Now, of course, he’s perfectly fine, he got neutered as soon as possible, and he loves my daughter (who was the one who did most of his bottle feeding) very much. But that “free” kitten that we picked up in a field was pretty damned expensive.

Yeah, we’ve gotten that same “free” bargain three times now. It’s amazing how expensive “free” is.

[Jackmannii]

@cosmosdan

The post you responded to had a specific time frame in it.

I quoted another poster who mentioned “within six weeks” as a time frame during which he expected to be able to return defective goods to the store, rather than having to hassle with the manufacturer on the warranty. I indicated that an item which proves defective on initial use should be returnable to the store (and that’s certainly within six weeks - in fact, I also agree that an expensive item that breaks down anytime within a six week period should be returnable to the store as well).

@cosmodan

As a merchant…we try to be flexible with policies as part of good advertising and PR

Which brings me back to wondering why your store apparently doesn’t have an unambiguous policy on returns which is made abundantly clear to purchasers.

Such as: “All returns for defective merchandise must be made within X days. Items which break down after that time are the responsibility of the manufacturer under the warranty.”

Then you can utilize all the “discretion” you want, but at least the customer knows what to expect up front.

[Sam_Lowry]

@Lynn_Bodoni

No matter what business it is, if it’s a small business, then the owner or spouse has a gazillion best friends, children, or other relatives, many of whom s/he doesn’t even know. Even in chains, there are a gazillion relatives who are supposed to get a freebie or discount because of the manager.

When I was working at a convenience store, I particularly loved the ones who tried to tell me that they were the owner’s child. I’d say something on the order of “you sure outgrew your diapers fast” because the owner DID have a couple of kids, but they were both toddlers.

What was always amazing was that these people seemed to think that there was nothing wrong in attempting to scam a business, and they didn’t realize or didn’t care that they could get a clerk fired.

It’s fascinating to me that people try to do this. Do a lot of people try this? Or is it just a few and it’s memorable when they do? It just seems so unlikely to work, since with smaller stores the clerk would likely know the owner and maybe his or her family, and with bigger stores it would be drilled into them about not giving away discounts. Also, are the people who try this scammers in other ways as well? Or are they otherwise honest people who just don’t think there’s anything wrong with lying in order to get a discount?

I’ve never worked in retail, and after reading threads like this here and the stories on Not Always Right I feel extremely grateful for that.

[Lynn_Bodoni]

There’s not a LOT of people who do this, but it happens on a regular basis. After all, if it works, then hey, free or discounted stuff, and if it doesn’t work, there’s no downside, can’t be arrested for it (or at least I don’t think you can be arrested for it) or any other penalty, other than the clerks will give you the hairy eyeball when you come in. So what have they got to lose?

I had one girl (teenager) who we all suspected was a shoplifter, but we could never catch her at it. One time she asked me why we didn’t carry a particular kind of candy any more. I told her that while we kept buying that candy, it never got sold, it just disappeared, so we were losing money on it. It was like she’d never thought that anyone would know or care if she stole that candy, as if she’d never realized that the store wanted to make a profit.

[drachillix]

@dropzone

But I thought that while the markup on equipment is 50% the markup on cables and shit (technical A/V term for what is called in the catalog “accessories”) is 75% to 95% because that’s where the profit is and you can toss him a pretty big bone and still come out ahead.

I own a computer shop, I can answer the reason behind this.

One of the things about high markup small items is also this…every transaction has an attached cost in man hours and overhead whether they are outfitting a whole office with 11 brand new $2000 a pop computers or coming in and buying a 7’ Ethernet cable. If you are dropping $20K on me…I am not going to quibble about a few Ethernet cables, USB cables, or even bumping the bosses monitor from a 22" to 24" for no extra charge. Demand free 24" monitors for every one of them that cost me $179 each shipped and wipe out 60% of my margin on each machine after the estimate specified that price included installation/setup…nope.

Some of my stories are already bordering on legend

gods of buyers remorse
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=595407&highlight=computer

lets play scam the computer guy
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=577468&highlight=computer

damaged my computer and lets try to blame the shop
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=573623&highlight=computer

Give a man a cookie and now you must feed him for free
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567951&highlight=computer

lost a friend over refusing to return a 6 month old working part
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551815&highlight=computer

Fear my Leet haxxor skilz
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=682444&highlight=computer

On a happy note…I am currently involved in a situation where I was able to remote access a computer that had recently been stolen from one of my customers…and screenshot the FB account of the guy using it. we shall see where that goes. Will post details of that story as it unfolds.

[Martin_Hyde]

@cosmosdan

What store allows you to return a TV 6 months later?

By “return” I mean they would have taken the TV back from me and returned a repaired TV to me later, not that they would have taken the TV back from me and given me a store credit, refund, or a new TV. The big box store in question was Target, they take most stuff back within a 90 day window even if it’s opened (but since their policy says the 90 days applies to “unopened”/“new” stuff they have leeway to not accept it), and they’ll assist you in getting something fixed even past that point, which is what they offered for the TV. They would basically have acted as the middle man I’m assuming and gotten Samsung to repair the TV so the cost to them would have been minimal, but it was much more to my advantage to work with Samsung directly.

[Wolf333]

Wow, drachillix, some of those seem oddly familiar.

We had a lot of customers trying to return items under warranty for accidental damage; cracked screens, fluid damage, and in one extreme case, ran over by a lawnmower (they literally brought in a plastic bag full of iPhone bits and grass). These folks always angrily say that we “aren’t standing behind our products”.