# Dear Customer, You're no longer welcome in our stores. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 15, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694 "2003-07-15T16:54:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/41 "2003-07-16T13:43:26Z")
Plus, all those mean people called Cher’s mom and dad “gypsies, tramps and thieves” in that song… ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/42 "2003-07-16T14:43:43Z")
That’s interesting, because we got to know a couple of the Irish Travelers in South Carolina and they used the word “gypsy” to describe themselves to me. In my case, having known some of the Irish Travelers, when I read the term “gypsy,” it immediately brought to mind a visual of the other times I’ve seen Irish Traveler groups out in public. They do stand out and are easily identified, and in fact the ones I knew went out of their way to make sure you couldn’t mistake them for anybody else (dress, hair, makeup, speech, etc. – a very distinctive style). I didn’t automatically read “thieves” into it. Am I the only one? So if “gypsy” is an offensive term, Uncle Beer, then perhaps the moderators here also ought to start banning the use of the word “midget” when applied to people because in the dwarf community, it is considered highly insulting and offensive. I know many, many dwarfs who regard being called a midget akin to being called a nigger. Even though I’ll wager that 90% of you folks don’t know this and would be very surprised to find that you had just deeply insulted a dwarf when using the word midget. If we use all self-identified offensive terms as the basis for not using what the vast majority of people generally considered only as descriptive terms – heck, I’m RELATED to a dwarf and didn’t realize the term “midget” was so offensive to so many dwarfs until the past few years – then where do we stop? Is the SDMB going to become another excessively PC place, where any time someone declares a term offensive in describing a group of people, that term is considered a racial slur? That’s my only point. I’m not saying I’m anxious to remain in ignorance – I wouldn’t hang out at the SDMB if I did – but I’m sure I’m not the only one here who had no idea that “gypsy” was so offensive and was surprised to see its use jumped on so heavily Sorry for the hijack, **JuanitaTech**! ---
**Author:** ![Sat\_on\_Cookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Sat\_on\_Cookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sat_on_Cookie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/43 "2003-07-16T15:02:03Z")
My former boss was sent a, “we think you’d be happier with another company” letter from Mont Blanc and some very nice briefcase company. It was also rumored that he was put on the “difficult customer” list at Delta and American. I never knew that they had such a list but apparently it alerts the airline employees to the fact that these people are scam artists and not to take any bull. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/44 "2003-07-16T15:27:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mayfield St. Cloud \* > \*\*Thank you, **Kal** , for that excellent research. I honestly had no idea that the Roma considered **Gypsy** to be a derogatory term. Now, I do. Good job fighting ignorance. \*\* I dunno, the few I’ve met have self identified as “Gypsy” when talking about themselves. I think this is likely another case like the Cleveland Indians or the Kansas City Chiefs, from everything I’ve read and from Native Americans I have talked to, most personally couldn’t care less. I used to work with a Native American and I asked him about it, his take was that the only people who got upset over team names were people who needed something to be upset about, and he wished they would stop using his people to further their political goals. What he found insulting was people telling him what he should be upset about. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/45 "2003-07-16T15:40:48Z")
Thank you **UncleBeer** and **Kal**. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/46 "2003-07-16T15:49:42Z")
it really depends, Dave. I use the word “gypsy”, but I would only use it when its context would be understood. It is really dependent on context. I doubt the moderators (or Kal, for that matter) would ask for a ban on the use of the word “Gypsy” just that more care is used in considering the context. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/47 "2003-07-16T16:08:36Z")
I agree totally Twisty. I am only talking about the use of the term to describe someone’s ethnicity, although as we have seen, it’s not the most accurate term to use. Implying that because of that ethnicity the people in question were thieves or worse would be repugnant. ---
**Author:** ![Washte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Washte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washte)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/48 "2003-07-16T16:18:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > Plus, all those mean people called Cher’s mom and dad “gypsies, tramps and thieves” in that song… It just goes to show you the connotation this word carries to be classed with these other words. Sometimes it is easier to call oneself a name that others will recognise, **Mama Tiger**. For example, can you tell me the difference between Rom, Roma and Romani, or who/what the Domari and Sinti are? Rather than have to spend half a day detailing the connections and derivitives and whatnot, it is easier to just say “Gypsy”, even though it may not be accurate, and is very self-depreciating. Also, how many times have you heard Black people refer to themselves as Ni\*\*ers? Yes, we all know this is a _naughty_ word and should not use it. It wasn’t until after years of complaining about that word, did a few White people start paying attention, then finally no-no’d the word. It is the similar with _Gypsy_. The only thing is, who is there to listen? People are trying to bring positive attention these people, but they remain a beaten, spit upon race. As for Natives, **Weirddave** , I can only shake my head. White people calling Natives _Indians_ is funny and reminds many just how stupid people can be… the US sure isn’t _India_. However, I do agree that it is wrong to be told what to be upset about. There are myriad teams named after Native peoples, or terms (Braves, Chiefs, etc.). There are so many other things that should be addressed politically and socially instead of piddly things like this. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/49 "2003-07-16T16:22:39Z")
But there is a case for going after the piddly things too. By doing so you are raising the awareness of Native issues, and using targets that the everyday person is going to want to be informed of. while it is a small thing to be getting wound up over, anything that can raise awareness should be used. Isn’t this a bit debatish for MPSIMS? I saw a cow last week. Moo. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/50 "2003-07-16T16:31:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Isn’t this a bit debatish for MPSIMS? Yeah, but I think we should clear it up here where it started and the questions were initially posed. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/51 "2003-07-16T16:37:37Z")
[Slight Hijack] Recently I was eating at a Cracker Barrel (I know, I know, but it wasn’t my choice and eggs are eggs, right?) with my mother, who ordered the Special Breakfast Casserole, which you can only get if you come early (and do you know how hard it is to beat a bunch of Cracker-Barrel lovers to breakfast?) because once they run out, they don’t make more. So Mom, in fact, got the _last_ piece of the Special Breakfast Casserole. When the waiter set it before her, he immediately apologized (though she hadn’t complained) about the fact that it was slightly overdone on one end. Then he went on to say (even though she’d told him it looked OK) that because she’d gotten the last piece, he couldn’t replace it with another one. Therefore, he said, if she didn’t like it, he’d give it to her free of charge, even if she ate it all. PLUS, he said, she was welcome to order _another_ breakfast of her choice, and he’d give her _that_ free of charge, as well. She ate the casserole–and paid for it–but Dude. That kid was SO asking for it! I couldn’t help wondering how many other customers he’d given a chance to score free grub when they had not uttered one word of complaint! Can you imagine if he were a car salesman? “I’m sorry, this is our last 2003 model, and I know you wanted red, but this one is apple red as opposed to the cherry red I think you’d prefer (even though you haven’t said as much). So here’s what I’ll do: If you don’t like the apple red, I’ll give you this car for free. Plus you’re welcome to keep _this_ car and when our 2004 models come in, I’ll give you one of _those_ for free, too!” [/Slight Hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/52 "2003-07-16T17:26:28Z")
Heh, **auntie em** , sounds like he was a bit too eager to be helpful. 🙂 Related to the OP, I think that the sales clerks for Filene’s will be discouraged from overusing, “You can always return it!” as a means of encouraging reluctant shoppers, just in case one of these abuse-the-system women tries to pull that out as an excuse again. ---
**Author:** ![chewbasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@chewbasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chewbasta)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/53 "2003-07-16T17:42:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\ ***Moderator’s Notes:** > **chewbasta** , you are one insult away from being banned. Deliberately flaunting the moderator’s demands is not productive. \*\* Have a beer. Smee just trying to bypass the petty drivel, and get back on topic. Pologies. 🆒 ? ---
**Author:** ![guava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71e660/32.png) [@guava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guava)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/54 "2003-07-16T17:48:40Z")
I just looked at my bill from the shoe store and it says right on it: \*It’s okay if you change your mind. Just bring the item back in new condition with it’s packaging and your receipt with 15 days. Christmas gifts will gladly be exchanged from December 29 2002 until February 28, 2003.\* Guess it’s been a while since they updated their message. I end up returning quite a lot of the purchases that I make and everyone has been especially friendly about it. A lot of stores even encourage it, as above. I quite often order from the Sears catalog and the associates on the phone always tell me that if I’m unsure of size I should order two and return the one that doesn’t fit as well. (Quite often neither of them fit and I return them both.) I’m also confused about the problem with too many excessive promotions. If anyone gives me a promotion, I’m going to use it, as long as it is applicable to me. If they didn’t want me to use it, they’d change the rules regarding it. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/55 "2003-07-16T19:06:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\*I don’t get this. If I received coupons/promotions and used them, why would you prevent me from reactivating? What do you mean by excessive? If I used every promotion that came my way, no matter how many that would be, what’s wrong with that? > > I’m assuming you meant reactivating, by the way, because how could you have information on an (presumably new) account that hasn’t been activated. \*\* Sorry **JuanitaTech** , should have been more clear. I’m so used to talking to co-workers who understand what I mean 😃 The issue is people who call in, argue about what the dealer said, or what she heard her friend’s uncle’s brother’s wife got for free and demand the same treatment. Or when you call and dispute long distance charges for the 5th time even after we investigate and determine these calls are legit and they’re making them. Like the example I stated about my GF’s patient’s account. This guy would complain about his phone not working in subways and elevators, demand a new phone, get a new phone (dealer swap), complain about the antenna not being sturdy enough, or long enough, or being a different colour from the phone itself and _demand_ another phone. In the end a manager sent out a used phone (a high end perfectly working Samsung A460), then he complained about some scratches on the phone, we said screw it and walked away. And yeah, it’s only possible for me to decline reactivating accounts (generally people who have had to close for non-payment). Although we do have some contact between our next biggest competitor (if they decline to refer a new user (who has no credit score) we ask for a security deposit). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/56 "2003-07-16T20:44:14Z")
May I ask-is it offensive to have a cat named Gypsy? (I named her after the character on _Mystery Science Theater 3000_ The problem is, how many businesses are actually willing to do this? Too few, from my observation. We’ve got to get away from this “The Customer is Always Right” mentality. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/57 "2003-07-16T21:06:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > I doubt the moderators (or Kal, for that matter) would ask for a ban on the use of the word “Gypsy” just that more care is used in considering the context. That’s where you’re wrong buddy. I demand the immediate banning of the words “Gypsy”, “Egypt” and “Gypsum”. Well, not really. That would be stupid. Firstly, my personal thoughts. To me, “Gypsy” is akin to “Negro” - it’s a name given to us by others. Maybe “Eskimo” would be a better analogy, though. Regarding its usage in this thread, I feel the same as **Twisty** and **Unclebeer** : Why make mention of the ethnicity of the customers? Would just saying “Jerks” have detracted from the story? When relevent, then of course it should be used - just maybe not for the whole thread though. If I’m writing an OP, I may use the term Roma (“Gypsies”) at the beginning so people know what I’m talking about and then just use Roma and Romani for the rest. Romani people do use the word, btw. But not to each other. When speaking to outsiders, it pretty much has to be used because they don’t normally know the correct names. A fellow Rom and Doper, **stankow** had this to say on the subject: > [@](#): > > …do people over there understand “Romani”? I used it for a while while I was in college, but everyone thought I meant “Romanian,” so I just go with “Gypsy” now. > [@](#): > > …there are plenty of us who don’t mind the word, as long as it’s not used as a slur per se. I for one got tired of saying “Roma … no, not Romanian, Roma. Romany? Never heard of it, eh… Czigany? Zigeuner? Gitano? Oh, sod it. Gypsy.” And as demonstrated with that final quote, not every Romani person dislikes the word - many do though. It’s an interesting word. There are many who hate it and all its connotations, who would like to distance themselves from it as much as possible, but at the same time there is an element of protectiveness to it. That people (such as Irish Travellers) are sometimes called it too, pisses them off. It’s as though something that has been part of Romani culture for hundreds of years is being stolen and given to others. A key part of that is the “Gypsy” stereotype. I know there’s elements of both positive and negitive to it, but it’s not an accurate portrayal. For example, the stereotype of nomadism is bollocks. It’s more than fair to say that over half the world’s Romani population are settled. In fact, the latest claims I’ve read are that only 5% are actually nomadic. You have this stereotype of “Gypsies” that the people the term has referred to for several hundred years don’t necessarily conform to. But the stereotype is a powerful one and others that seem to fit the bill fill the void. They become “gypsies” (note the lowercase). So the Romani people have a name “Gypsy” - and the connotations and stereotypes that go with it - but no control over any of them. Regarding the piddly stuff. On the whole, I don’t give a damn. Sometimes I may decide to fight ignorance, but mainly don’t bother. It may come as a shock to those who think that I’m some kind of thin-skinned, PC clown but I’ve never reported any usage of “Gypsy”, “Gyp”, “Gypped” or “pikey” to the Mods or Admins. I’m not too bothered. Slights like those on a message board are unimportant in the grand scheme of things - saying a couple of those to my face IRL or in a thread where it is clear what my ethnicity is, would be a different matter though. (I have reported someone socking up to troll a thread of mine and someone posting what, in the UK at least, is the Romani version of the N-word. Although I did mention that I thought the poster in question was unaware of the meaning.) I’m far more concerned with Neo-Nazis attacking Romani people on an almost daily basis, with Romani women being sterilized against their will, with pogroms and ethnic cleansing. Stuff like that. The big stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/58 "2003-07-16T21:32:26Z")
Well, I have certainly learned more about the Roma by reading this thread, than I knew before. As for me, I have never (to my knowledge) seen any Roma. How does one tell if someone is a Roma or not? Do many of them wear a distinctive type of outfit? From **Kal’s** post above, it would appear that the majority are not nomadic, so I presume that they dress/appear assimilated. If so, how can someone in a restaurant know that a particular group of scammers are Roma? Please forgive my total ignorance of the topic - I am just curious; all I know about the Roma is about their persecution by the Nazis along with Jews, homosexuals, etc., and the images one gets from books and movies - the “romantic gypsy”. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/59 "2003-07-16T21:49:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wmulax93 \* > \*\*Why not deal with the manufacturer’s warranty? It should last longer than the store’s return policy. Plus, IMO, that’s why the manufacturer gave the thing a warranty. \*\* Mfr. warranties typically are only good for 90 days. Wal-Mart has an unconditional return policy for one year. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694/60 "2003-07-16T22:48:29Z")
I realise that the _external connotations_ of Gypsy (Gypped, Gypsy Burglaries, etc) are extremely offensive, but afaik it is by many people considered a legitimate term to encompass multiple travelling communities. Obviously, if referring to Roma then Roma is the phrase, but Travellers in Ireland are not Roma and have a separate culture, language, ethnicity etc. There are also various other types of Travellers around, and the word “Nomad” doesn’t exactly fit, especially not in a changing world where many people from the travelling communities are living as settled. While the various communities often suffer from the same prejudices and hatred, and while they may share common goals and work togther for them, they are discrete cultures. [http://www.paveepoint.ie/pav\_faq\_a.html](http://www.paveepoint.ie/pav_faq_a.html) is a good starting point for those interested in Irish Travellers (in Ireland). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-customer-youre-no-longer-welcome-in-our-stores/188694.md?page=4)