# Dear Cynic a'la Diogenes \[why one woman is voting for McCain\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845 "2008-09-14T04:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/21 "2008-09-14T10:57:45Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > discussion not derision Sometimes discussion is derision. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/22 "2008-09-14T11:03:20Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > My views cannot be that important to you - I am not that self absorbed that I imagine you actually give a rat’s pattootie what I think. > > The reason I used my own experience and my decision making process was to illustrate the OP’s point - “Listen up if you’d like to win the election”. > > Aren’t you at all interested in how the Dems can win back disenfranchised female voters? > In order to woo back voters perhaps the Dems would like to learn how/why they lost female supporters. > > I just won’t argue with you - I prefer to listen to anything useful you offer in the way of persuasive discussion and take away any pearls you might drop my way. > > I am also not here to change anyone’s mind. I will respect your position (once I understand it) but I just don’t respond to straw man tactics. > > I’m pretty tired and must go to sleep now. > I hope your evening (morning?) is pleasant. > > Thanks > > Pinky There is nothing strawman about the question you were asked. You made a statement, and when questioned about that statement you don’t respond. When you asked for clarification from me you got it, but you don’t respond in kind apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/23 "2008-09-14T16:33:39Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > My views cannot be that important to you - I am not that self absorbed that I imagine you actually give a rat’s pattootie what I think. > > The reason I used my own experience and my decision making process was to illustrate the OP’s point - “Listen up if you’d like to win the election”. > > Aren’t you at all interested in how the Dems can win back disenfranchised female voters? > In order to woo back voters perhaps the Dems would like to learn how/why they lost female supporters. > > I just won’t argue with you - I prefer to listen to anything useful you offer in the way of persuasive discussion and take away any pearls you might drop my way. > > I am also not here to change anyone’s mind. I will respect your position (once I understand it) but I just don’t respond to straw man tactics. > > I’m pretty tired and must go to sleep now. > I hope your evening (morning?) is pleasant. > > Thanks > > Pinky I don’t buy that the Dems are losing any disenfranchised female voters. Support your premise, please. I also don’t buy that you’re a Democrat. Sorry. You also don’t know what “strawman” means. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/24 "2008-09-14T16:35:09Z")
> [@Democrats, listen up if you'd like to win the election.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/102): > > Could you be more specific as to what you mean by this? She’ll give you a passive-aggressive response accusing you of being derisive and tell you she doesn’t have to answer your questions. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/25 "2008-09-14T23:26:15Z")
Why should I respond to a statement like this? > [@](#): > > **why you believe that voting for a misogynist will remedy whatever sexist sentiment you imagine you see in the media.** I am not voting for a man who hates women. I am certain my vote will NOT remedy ANY sexist sentiment real or imagined. You appear to be borderline hostile towards me, and this confuses me because I don’t understand what purpose that hostility serves 😕 Am I to feel something bad about myself because my opinions are not identical to yours? I am a newbie here, and not yet accustomed to this particular forum environment - is there a protocol poo pile I’ve stepped in unawares? I am trying like hell NOT to hijack this thread topic. I believe that hijacking probably violates forum protocol. Pinky ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/26 "2008-09-14T23:46:31Z")
> [@Democrats, listen up if you'd like to win the election.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/102): > > Could you be more specific as to what you mean by this? > > Say hi to Chicolini for me. 🙂 Even tho I am a fan of Marx Brothers movies , I had to google Chicolini to realize the full weight of your insult. I do not understand your motivation, but I do appreciate your talent for the playful yet obscure discrediting barb. You are very good at this, I am not. I must be an easy target. Pinky ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/27 "2008-09-15T00:16:33Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > Why should I respond to a statement like this? > > I am not voting for a man who hates women. If you’re voting for McCain, you’re voting a for a man who voted against equal pay for equal work for women, who has a history of extraordinarily shabby treatment of women in his personal life, a man who has called Hillary a lesbian and called her daughter “ugly,” a man who opposes reproductive rights for women and who opposes social issues like UHC that are important to women. You are voting AGAINST a guy who has done nothing but support women’s issues and has never once been disrespectful to women. > [@](#): > > I am certain my vote will NOT remedy ANY sexist sentiment real or imagined. Then what are you hoping to accomplish? > [@](#): > > You appear to be borderline hostile towards me, and this confuses me because I don’t understand what purpose that hostility serves :confused Does this passive-aggressive innocence act work out well for you in real lfe? > [@](#): > > Am I to feel something bad about myself because my opinions are not identical to yours? I am a newbie here, and not yet accustomed to this particular forum environment - is there a protocol poo pile I’ve stepped in unawares? I don’t care how you feel about yourself, I’m just asking you to explain the reasoning behind some of your own statements. THAT is how we do things here, especially in the debate forum. You’re taking things way too personally. This kind of questioning happens to everybody. > [@](#): > > I am trying like hell NOT to hijack this thread topic. I believe that hijacking probably violates forum protocol. Not really, but you are the one who broached these subjects. I’ve done nothing but ask you to explain your own assertions. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/28 "2008-09-15T01:07:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Does this passive-aggressive innocence act work out well for you in real lfe? Please, do not mistake my lack of hostility toward you as personal innocence. I am unaccustomed to all of you and I am green to the personalities and rhythms of this particular forum. I flat out do not feel hostile toward you - why would I? I don’t even know you! I might like or dislike you in real life - Therefore - your apparent hostility toward me is confusing. My real life career requires that I stay even tempered in the middle of chaos and crisis - so in that regard I’d have to say - Yes, my lack of hostility towards others when they are reactive to severe stress HAS worked well for me. I cannot properly respond to a question where my views are distorted and I am asked to defend/explain the distortion. Pinky ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/29 "2008-09-15T01:36:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t care how you feel about yourself That’s a relief 🙂 > [@](#): > > I’m just asking you to explain the reasoning behind some of your own statements. If that is your intent - then you’d ask me “Why are you voting for McCain?” > [@](#): > > THAT is how we do things here, especially in the debate forum. You’re taking things way too personally. This kind of questioning happens to everybody. Everyone gets called a Chicolini? That’s a relief too:) (funniest insult I’ve ever received, really, I’m in awe) 🙂 > [@](#): > > I’ve done nothing but ask you to explain your own assertions. That’s **not** true. **You** asserted that McCain is a misogynist. Then you asked me to defend voting for a misogynist. That’s not me explaining MY views. That’s me explaining your view of my view. I won’t do that. Pinky ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/30 "2008-09-15T01:44:47Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > That’s a relief 🙂 > > If that is your intent - then you’d ask me “Why are you voting for McCain?” > > Everyone gets called a Chicolini? That’s a relief too:) > > (funniest insult I’ve ever received, really, I’m in awe) 🙂 > > That’s **not** true. **You** asserted that McCain is a misogynist. Then you asked me to defend voting for a misogynist. That’s not me explaining MY views. That’s me explaining your view of my view. I won’t do that. Why are you voting for McCain? What has John McCain done to champion women’s rights? Does it bother you that he called Hillary a lesbian and called Chelsea “ugly?” I’m still curious as to what specific political issues are important to you. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/31 "2008-09-15T01:48:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then what are you hoping to accomplish? Accomplish by voting? Same thing as you. A safe & prosperous country. Pinky ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/32 "2008-09-15T01:57:27Z")
> [@Democrats, listen up if you'd like to win the election.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/117): > > If Harpo Marx were alive, _he_ would have grounds to be insulted, by my associating you with the character he played in _Duck Soup_. > > You, OTOH… Harpo was my favorite Marx brother - all his humor was physical - Harpo was not glib, like Groucho. Having said that - I AM aware that Harpo was a well known misogynist and my preference for him over Groucho must eventually be explained to the court of dopers. Yes - I vote for HARPO the misogynist Marx Brother Pinky ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/33 "2008-09-15T02:03:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why are you voting for McCain? What has John McCain done to champion women’s rights? Does it bother you that he called Hillary a lesbian and called Chelsea “ugly?” > > I’m still curious as to what specific political issues are important to you. Thank you! I will respond. I hate threadjacking. I’ll respond to you later by starting a new thread. I’ve got to go watch a Marx Brothers movie now (joking) I’m not ignoring you. Take care, Pinky ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/34 "2008-09-16T15:05:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Why are you voting for McCain? this will be conversational - not a debate … as evidenced by my lack of debate skills 🙂 > [@](#): > > What has John McCain done to champion women’s rights? > [@](#): > > Does it bother you that he called Hillary a lesbian and called Chelsea “ugly?” what you are not asking is the answer I , me, myself cannot be extracted from the equation of “why” my style is not the same as yours my biases are not your biases my life experiences are different (not better, but different) than yours my opinions on important life issues have evolved over the decades of my life example: abortion I once worked for Planned Parenthood assisting in abortions I was pro-abortion now I am staunchly anti-abortion unless the mother’s life is in danger how did that change come about? my life experiences changed me abortion technique has not changed much - I changed I did a NICU (preemie) rotation - and it changed me my husband and I adopted 2 high risk children - and that changed me my intent is NOT to debate abortion with you (I am a crappy debator anyway) - but explain to you how/why I became anti-abortion each experience in my life has moved me in some direction I used to be cynical - now I am sentimental I used to be agnostic - I now pray and feel the better for it I used to be proud - until I was humbled by my own errors and found myself on my knees begging for help I have had many painful experiences for which I am grateful > [@](#): > > I’m still curious as to what specific political issues are important to you. character and strength are not issues - but these characteristics are more important to me than any particular issue women’s rights and McCain? - well, I disavowed myself from the NOW orginization when I realized how intollerant they were to opinions that did not fit their agenda women’s rights are just fine in America - I think women’s rights suck in many other parts of the world the stoning of women in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and other places offends me deeply speaking of the world- part of my life experience has been extensive world travel - it changed me and opened me up to other cultural joys and struggles we are all flawed politicians and actors are probably excessively flawed I know McCain is not a perfect person I know Obama is not a perfect person same goes for the veep candidates as well it’s important to me that government keep it’s hands out of my wallet I work hard I earned my education it was not handed to me that effort and that struggle to get where I am paid dividends I did not expect I purposly stand aside when my children want life handed to them with minimal effort on their part - they need to struggle and they need to be humbled because character and strength are important life skills you cannot acquire these skills without pain and failure saying Hillary is a lesbian is stupid (unless she is a lesbian) - I have cast aspersions and gossiped to ruin another’s reputation myself - it’s wrong - and we usually get bit in the butt by these stupid behaviors later on making fun of someone’s looks is cruel and stupid - and I’ve done this too - and paid the price I am not a huge fan of McCain - never have been the views he has expressed on illegal immigration are especially bothersome to me Obama’s views on illegal immigration are not to my liking either - so it’s an issue I cannot use to make this decision - abortion views are different between candidates - and this I can use to make a decision I am not a one issue voter - but, like most people, I have a hierarchy of issues and characterisdtics that are more important to me and closer to the top of my hierarchy yours will be different my problem solving style is not the same as someone who is an engineer my professional training has highlighted and polished certain intrinsic skills I came by naturally my problem solving involves both gut and evidence it’s hard to debate gut I must stop now and go back to real life reply if you want or not either way I wish you well on your journey and joy in your heart - the cynic’s life can be very lonely Pinky (my grandfather called me Pinky - mine is a totally NON political name - it’s sentimental and personal) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/35 "2008-09-16T15:10:55Z")
So you’re a right wing conservative, just like I thought. As I suspected, you’re a single issue, anti-choice voter pretending to be a disenchanted Democrat. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/36 "2008-09-16T15:14:59Z")
Because of the subject matter, and since this thread was started [in response to a conversation in another GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10196947#post10196947), I’ve moved this to Great Debates. I also edited the thread title for clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/37 "2008-09-16T15:18:12Z")
It does seem you are a single issue voter despite your claim not to be. That is not to say there are other issues which do not concern you but that abortion dramatically tips the scale and it’d take a mountain of issues on the other side to have a chance. Your decision of course, you can make up your mind as you please, just do not fool yourself about it. Also, championing women’s rights is by no means restricted to the abortion debate alone. Far from it. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/38 "2008-09-16T15:26:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because of the subject matter, and since this thread was started [in response to a conversation in another GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10196947#post10196947), I’ve moved this to Great Debates. I also edited the thread title for clarity. my post could never be imagined as a “great debate” but - you’re the Mod Pinky ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/39 "2008-09-16T15:33:09Z")
In another thread she said she was a former Obama supporter who switched to McCain after the Primaries. As her reason, she vaguely cites “sexism” in the media, but refused to either name examples of it or explain why she thinks voting for McCain would be a remedy. She claimed she is still a Democrat but has declined my rquest to give examples of any Democratic party principles which are important to her. Now she’s citing “Character,” but has not explained why Obama suddenly _stopped_ having character. The closest she’s coming to articulating any kind of political ideology is to say that she’s anti-choice, and hint that she doesn’t like illegal immigration, and she doesn’t want the gummint in her wallet. All perfectly standard Democratic party positions. :rolleyes: There’s some standard right-wing boilerplate in there about “personal responsibility” in there too, but I don’t know what that’s supposed to have to have any reference to the election, especially since Obama is the one who grew up on food stamps and has earned everything he’s gotten himself (which is a pittance compared to what McCain has), while McCain has inherited it and married it. I think her PP story is dubious too. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845/40 "2008-09-16T15:35:07Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > my post could never be imagined as a “great debate” > > but - you’re the Mod > > Pinky But is sure come close to Witnessing. Besides how many debates in Great Debates are great? 😉 So it sounds like you found God. As far as Abortion goes, are you against all abortions or just the aborting after a certain number of months of development or do you make exceptions for cases of Rape and incest and serious health risk to the mother? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-cynic-ala-diogenes-why-one-woman-is-voting-for-mccain/463845.md?page=3)