Dear Cynic a'la Diogenes [why one woman is voting for McCain]

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

I’d still like to know why you’re a Democrat. Could you name three Democratic party principles which are important to you?

[pinkyvee]

right wing - not

conservative - on some issues yes

single issue - not

anti-choice - anti abortion yes - not anti choice

disenchanted Democrat - I am a Democrat - one who is not especially disenchanted - just not enchanted

and how are you today?

Pinky/Chicolini on this forum

[pinkyvee]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Now she’s citing “Character,” but has not explained why Obama suddenly stopped having character.

Obama **suddenly stopped **having character? That’s news to me!

Pinky

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@pinkyvee

Obama **suddenly stopped **having character? That’s news to me!

You said you switched from Obama to McCain. You cite character as the reason. What changed about either of their characters between the primaries and now?

[Whack-a-Mole]

@pinkyvee

it’s important to me that government keep it’s hands out of my wallet
I work hard
I earned my education it was not handed to me

that effort and that struggle to get where I am paid dividends I did not expect

Sounds like you are saying Dems will pick your pocket while Reps will let you keep all your money.

This is not true in the slightest looking at the history of Dem/Rep administrations. Historically if you are exceptionally wealthy (read top 1-2%) Reps are better for you. For everyone else Dems are actually better.

[Sampiro]

@pinkyvee

it’s important to me that government keep it’s hands out of my wallet

Unless you earn in the high 6 figures, this is a good reason to vote Obama.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

[quote=“pinkyvee, post:42, topic:463845”]

right wing - not
[/quote

conservative - on some issues yes[/quote]

Could you give a couple of examples of Democratic party principles you support?

anti-choice - anti abortion yes - not anti choice.

So you think believe it should remain legal?

[pinkyvee]

[quote=“Diogenes_the_Cynic, post:44, topic:463845”]

You cite character as the reason.

[QUOTE]

I did not.
I said character and strength are important characteristics

Pinky

[Shayna]

pinkyvee, are you even familiar with Senator Obama’s feelings and stand on abortion, or do you just think Demcrat=Baby Killers?

@Barack Obama

. . .

This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. **I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God’s will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all. **

Now this is going to be difficult for some who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, as many evangelicals do. But in a pluralistic democracy, we have no choice. Politics depends on our ability to persuade each other of common aims based on a common reality. It involves the compromise, the art of what’s possible. At some fundamental level, religion does not allow for compromise. It’s the art of the impossible. If God has spoken, then followers are expected to live up to God’s edicts, regardless of the consequences. To base one’s life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing. And if you doubt that, let me give you an example.

We all know the story of Abraham and Isaac. Abraham is ordered by God to offer up his only son, and without argument, he takes Isaac to the mountaintop, binds him to an altar, and raises his knife, prepared to act as God has commanded.

Of course, in the end God sends down an angel to intercede at the very last minute, and Abraham passes God’s test of devotion.

But it’s fair to say that if any of us leaving this church saw Abraham on a roof of a building raising his knife, we would, at the very least, call the police and expect the Department of Children and Family Services to take Isaac away from Abraham. We would do so because we do not hear what Abraham hears, do not see what Abraham sees, true as those experiences may be. So the best we can do is act in accordance with those things that we all see, and that we all hear, be it common laws or basic reason.

<giant snip>

So we all have some work to do here. But I am hopeful that we can bridge the gaps that exist and overcome the prejudices each of us bring to this debate. And I have faith that millions of believing Americans want that to happen. No matter how religious they may or may not be, people are tired of seeing faith used as a tool of attack. They don’t want faith used to belittle or to divide. They’re tired of hearing folks deliver more screed than sermon. Because in the end, that’s not how they think about faith in their own lives.

So let me end with just one other interaction I had during my campaign. A few days after I won the Democratic nomination in my U.S. Senate race, I received an email from a doctor at the University of Chicago Medical School that said the following:

“Congratulations on your overwhelming and inspiring primary win. I was happy to vote for you, and I will tell you that I am seriously considering voting for you in the general election. I write to express my concerns that may, in the end, prevent me from supporting you.”

The doctor described himself as a Christian who understood his commitments to be “totalizing.” His faith led him to a strong opposition to abortion and gay marriage, although he said that his faith also led him to question the idolatry of the free market and quick resort to militarism that seemed to characterize much of the Republican agenda.

But the reason the doctor was considering not voting for me was not simply my position on abortion. Rather, he had read an entry that my campaign had posted on my website, which suggested that I would fight “right-wing ideologues who want to take away a woman’s right to choose.” The doctor went on to write:

“I sense that you have a strong sense of justice…and I also sense that you are a fair minded person with a high regard for reason…Whatever your convictions, if you truly believe that those who oppose abortion are all ideologues driven by perverse desires to inflict suffering on women, then you, in my judgment, are not fair-minded…You know that we enter times that are fraught with possibilities for good and for harm, times when we are struggling to make sense of a common polity in the context of plurality, when we are unsure of what grounds we have for making any claims that involve others…I do not ask at this point that you oppose abortion, only that you speak about this issue in fair-minded words.”

Fair-minded words.

So I looked at my website and found the offending words. In fairness to them, my staff had written them using standard Democratic boilerplate language to summarize my pro-choice position during the Democratic primary, at a time when some of my opponents were questioning my commitment to protect Roe v. Wade.

Re-reading the doctor’s letter, though, I felt a pang of shame. It is people like him who are looking for a deeper, fuller conversation about religion in this country. They may not change their positions, but they are willing to listen and learn from those who are willing to speak in fair-minded words. Those who know of the central and awesome place that God holds in the lives of so many, and who refuse to treat faith as simply another political issue with which to score points.

So I wrote back to the doctor, and I thanked him for his advice. The next day, I circulated the email to my staff and changed the language on my website to state in clear but simple terms my pro-choice position. And that night, before I went to bed, I said a prayer of my own - a prayer that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that the doctor had extended to me.

. . .

I highly recommend that you read his entire Call to Renewal Keynote Address, you might find it enlightening.

[Sinaijon]

@Whack-a-Mole

Sounds like you are saying Dems will pick your pocket while Reps will let you keep all your money.

This is not true in the slightest looking at the history of Dem/Rep administrations. Historically if you are exceptionally wealthy (read top 1-2%) Reps are better for you. For everyone else Dems are actually better.

Cite?

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@pinkyvee

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

You cite character as the reason.

I did not.
I said character and strength are important characteristics

And what changed about Obama’s “strength” between the Primaries and now?

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Sinaijon

Cite?

Sure:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/08/31/business/0831-sbn-webVIEW.gif

SOURCE: New York Times: August 30, 2008

[Happy_Lendervedder]

@Sinaijon

Cite?

Another one:

Obama and McCain Tax Proposals

[aldiboronti]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

And what changed about Obama’s “strength” between the Primaries and now?

Something to do with the ham-fisted way he responded to the Republican resurgence after the primary perhaps? Like a moose caught in the headlights.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@aldiboronti

Something to do with the ham-fisted way he responded to the Republican resurgence after the primary perhaps? Like a moose caught in the headlights.

What was “ham-fisted” about it?

[Voyager]

@pinkyvee

right wing - not

conservative - on some issues yes

single issue - not

anti-choice - anti abortion yes - not anti choice

Who on this forum - or anywhere - is pro-abortion? We want women to have the option - the choice. Do you? If not, how can you say you are not anti-choice?

Are you aware that you will get a bigger tax cut under Obama than under McCain?

You’ve seen that people are losing their homes and getting laid off thanks to the Republican economic policies of the last 8 years. How is McCain going to change them? Perhaps your job is at risk also (just about all ours are.) Are you okay with losing your job so long as women don’t have the option of an abortion? That’s what it boils down to, really.

[Marley23]

@aldiboronti

Something to do with the ham-fisted way he responded to the Republican resurgence after the primary perhaps? Like a moose caught in the headlights.

pinkyvee lays out her reasons for voting Republican in the other thread. (I’ll add a link to make it clearer.) She says she started thinking about it because Obama lately appeared to be prepackaged and not his own man, and that her decision was cemented by a Gloria Steinem editorial that criticized Palin for being antifeminist.

[Bryan_Ekers]

Clearly Dio has met his Moriarty.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

Signorina pinkyvee:

If you will glance at your keyboard, you may notice two keyes–one immediately left of the “Z,” the other immediately right of the question mark. These are the shift keys. They allow you to capitalize.

Above the right shift key you will see the “enter” key. You’ll note that I did not write “return” key. This is because, unlike a typewriter, your computer will automatically move to the next line when the length of your text makes it necessary; thus it is only necessary to strike the enter key to end entire paragraphs and to space between them.

The enter and shift keys are your friends. The right shift key, in particular, has fought many perilous and glorious battles in defense of all that is right and good. If you would be so kind as to use those keys on a regular basis, other posters may be more inclined to read your posts.

Thank you.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@aldiboronti

Something to do with the ham-fisted way he responded to the Republican resurgence after the primary perhaps? Like a moose caught in the headlights.

I have no idea what you’re referring to or what it has to do with “strength.”