# Dear December, you ignorant f\*\*\*! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2002, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957 "2002-09-04T14:44:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957/161 "2002-09-14T21:40:38Z")
UNICEF doesn’t seem to have noticed any state-sponsored, state-mandated, or state-organized child prostitution in Cuba. [http://www.unicef.org/sowc02/](http://www.unicef.org/sowc02/) Neither does Daniel Shanfield, testifying before the House. [http://www.lchr.org/media/cubatestimony400.htm](http://www.lchr.org/media/cubatestimony400.htm) And there’s this… [http://www.iin.org.uy/CUBA\_ing.PDF](http://www.iin.org.uy/CUBA_ing.PDF) > [@](#): > > Republic of Cuba Second Congress on Sexual Exploitation of Children > Sonia Beretervide Dopico > > Prevention and care in the area of commercial sexual exploitation of children in any of its manifestations, constitutes a working priority for State institutions and agencies, the Government and social organizations in Cuba. And there’s this… [http://www.defence-for-children.org/ong/DciHome.nsf/e11046861a013ab900256416005da776/54c8ac9cb2e6edde41256484004eb4ab?OpenDocument](http://www.defence-for-children.org/ong/DciHome.nsf/e11046861a013ab900256416005da776/54c8ac9cb2e6edde41256484004eb4ab?OpenDocument) > [@](#): > > A report on the Third Session of the Working Group to draft an Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the Sale of Children, Child Pornography and Child Prostitution > 3-13 February, 1997 > > The Working Group on the Draft Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the Sale of Children, Child Prostitution and Child Pornography reconvened in Geneva for its third session on February 3, 1997. Mr. Ivan Mora Godoy from Cuba, nominated by Brazil on behalf of the Latin American states, was unanimously reelected chairman/rapporteur. > > \< snip \> > > Nowhere is this more clearly illustrated than in relation to the definition of the sale of children under Chapter II. > > The definition provoked some of the most lively and least constructive debate of the entire session. The definition’s scope was the main point at issue. Cuba, Uruguay, Columbia, Peru, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Syria, China, Egypt, Nigeria and Ethiopia supported a wide scope covering all aspects of exploitation, including economic and criminal exploitation and the trafficking of organs. And there’s the eventual UN Protocol itself… [http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu2/dopchild.htm](http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu2/dopchild.htm) > [@](#): > > **Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights > of the Child on the sale of children, child prostitution and child pornography** > > Adopted and opened for signature, ratification and accession by General Assembly resolution > > A/RES/54/263 of 25 May 2000 > > enters into force on 18 January 2002 Cuba signed it 13 Oct 2000 and ratified it 25 Sep 2001. [http://www.unicef.org/crc/opsx-tableweb.htm](http://www.unicef.org/crc/opsx-tableweb.htm) Wow, those Cubans must be some hellish hypocrites, huh. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957/162 "2002-09-15T02:52:49Z")
**DDG** , thanks for the cites. Clearly there is evidence that Cuba no longer is promoting child prostitution. I have shown cites saying that they once did so. I am satisfied to have shown that my charges have a reasonable amount of support, so that the vituperation from certain posters was uncalled for. I don’t see Cuba the way you do. Your sarcastic comment at the end of your post strikes me as the exact truth. I see Cuba as a hellhole. It’s so terrible that millions of its citizens have fled at enormous cost and enormous risk. Yet, the Castro government presents themselves as a highly estimable government, following the rule of law and providing superior living conditions. I consider “hellish hypocrites” to be an excellent characterization of the Castro regime. **wring** , we all agree that Cuba promoted prostitution. One could try to find cites or examples of how they promoted prostitution, so that we could judge whether this promotion campaign subtly promoted child prostitution as well. Anyone who wants to do this will gain my respect and my attention. It sounds pretty challenging, since this stuff may not be on the web, it may not be in American libraries, and it may not be in English. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957/163 "2002-09-15T03:38:19Z")
Look December, get this through your fucking head. Just because a particular activity may occur in Cuba does not prove that the GOVERNMENT OF CUBA IS ACTIVELY PROMOTING THIS. You have not proven that the CUBAN GOVERNMENT is or has endorsed child prostitution. It doesn’t matter how many times you post cites that only demonstrate individual and not governmental action. Do you not get that even if you post 10 million cites showing child prostitution happening in cuba, it doesn’t prove your assertion that the GOVERNMENT is doing this. Read the message above again. And again. And again. Slooowwwllly. Until you get it through your thick skull that you haven’t proven your point. ARGH! HOW CAN PEOPLE BE SO WILLFULLY STUPID?! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957/164 "2002-09-15T03:53:57Z")
> [@](#): > > . I see Cuba as a hellhole. It’s so terrible that millions of its citizens have fled at enormous cost and enormous risk. Cite, as to numbers, **december**? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957/165 "2002-09-15T03:54:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Could Cuba do an advertising campaign that would have the effect of promoting the availability of child prostitution. but without explicitly mentioning it? It’s certainly imaginable. Yeah, and an invisible pink elephant could be floating just behind me. It is certainly imaginable. But until I provide evidence for this other than speculation, I’m not stating a fact. December, I don’t endorse the cuban government. I’d be happy to see Castro out of power. But I’m not going to make shit up just to prove my point. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957/166 "2002-09-15T05:29:53Z")
\>\> we all agree that Cuba promoted prostitution **december** , speak for yourself because I certainly do not agree and you have not proved it at all. \>\> I don’t see Cuba the way you do. Your sarcastic comment at the end of your post strikes me as the exact truth. I see Cuba as a hellhole. It’s so terrible that millions of its citizens have fled at enormous cost and enormous risk. Yet, the Castro government presents themselves as a highly estimable government, following the rule of law and providing superior living conditions. I consider “hellish hypocrites” to be an excellent characterization of the Castro regime. And this is totally irrelevant to the issue we are discussing. The way I see Cuba is totally irrelevant to whether the Cuban government did, in fact, condone or promote child prostitution. Quit going on irrelevant tangents and show us some proof. Your accusation is so vague it is laughable on the face of it, No explanation of how it was done or in what country. I would like to know what country would allow advertising for child prostitution. I guess according to you it would be some European country, right? Come on december. Name names. \>\> Clearly there is evidence that Cuba no longer is promoting child prostitution. I have shown cites saying that they once did so. I am satisfied to have shown that my charges have a reasonable amount of support, so that the vituperation from certain posters was uncalled for. You have shown nothing of the sort. You have cited the proverbial “friend” and a book which offers a vague and unsupportable and unverifiable assertion which flies in the face of everything else we know but in your fanaticism you continue to believe that rather than use the common sense you lack. You are immune o all reasoning. Without any proof, just out of fanaticism, you are accusing people of having committed crimes. When I say you are a liar and a fanatic I am not vituperating, rather I am stating a fact which you have proven yourself. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957/167 "2002-09-15T12:19:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\* Cite, as to numbers, **december**? \*\* It’s from the same book I mentioned earlier. > [@](#): > > ## Blalron quote: > > ## Could Cuba do an advertising campaign that would have the effect of promoting the availability of child prostitution. but without explicitly mentioning it? It’s certainly imaginable. > > Yeah, and an invisible pink elephant could be floating just behind me. It is certainly imaginable. But until I provide evidence for this other than speculation, I’m not stating a fact. **Blalron** , if you reread the post I was responding to, you will see that another poster had said that such a thing was implausible or unimaginable. I was demonstrating that it was quite quite possible. The evidence that it actually occurred was the cites themselves. > [@](#): > > \*\* sailor\*\* > \>\> we all agree that Cuba promoted prostitution \<\< > > december, speak for yourself because I certainly do not agree and you have not proved it at all. I have provided any number of cites confirming this. Not cites have disputed it. You may choose to believe whatever you please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-december-you-ignorant-f/126957.md?page=8)