# Dear Deeply Misguided Bicycle Riding Bitch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010 "2008-07-02T04:46:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/41 "2008-07-04T11:51:02Z")
In all seriousness, with the proliferation of adult bicyclists, I can see some states requiring them to take at least written tests before being allowed on the streets, and mandating police enforcement of unsafe practices like wearing iPods. Robin ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/42 "2008-07-04T12:00:32Z")
There’s not much call for roller-skaters or skateboarders where I live, the public footpaths are not quite that smooth. It’s probably all the traffic from prams, buggies, shopping trolleys, etc that have caused them to get in such a state. That, or all the motor-vehicles that consistently park up on the pavements; sometimes causing said prams, buggies, etc to have to use the road. As for motor-cyclists, they want the convenience of speed, and the mobility of a cyclist; hence they are very greedy, and have none of my sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/43 "2008-07-04T13:05:15Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] ::: sigh::: Another bicycle rider rant? Is it Thursday already? [/quote] I do have some sympathy for the plight of the ordinary cyclist. Not the ones I have to pass five times on the same street because they keep riding up beside all the cars that just passed them at every red light, though. But all the other cyclists, I do feel for. This woman is just a bitch. And it’s not just that she’s riding on the sidewalks, which I don’t ever use to walk on, so I don’t give a shit that much about. It’s that she’s riding on the sidewalks in an ill-considered, dangerous manner and then yelling at me when she nearly causes an accident. A kid on a skateboard smacked into my father’s car once, and though the kid was uninjured, and the incident was entirely the fault of the kid (he came at high speed out of a driveway with a wall around it and smacked into the side of my father’s car on the street) my father still feels guilty about that, and it was years ago. I don’t need to have my life ruined because some idiot basically rode their bicycle under my tires. > [@](#): > > (In the interest of full disclosure if I am at a light where there is no traffic, and the demand system does not detect my bike, after about 2 minutes I will run the red, since I didn’t plan to sit there all day waiting for a car to come along.)( and before any car driver gives me shit about this, I bet if you stayed stopped at a light that refused to change, and there was no traffic, you would run the light also) To be honest, I usually just turn right (legal on red here), and then cop a U-turn (legal in most places here) and then turn right again. But that’s because I’m a giant wuss and horribly afraid of getting tickets from non-existent cops. If I was on a bike, I’d probably run the light. Or get off my bike and hit the pedestrian walk button, if there was one. Depending on how wussy I was feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/44 "2008-07-04T13:17:22Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] Does anyone want to consider this point again; if a cyclist hits a pedestrian, and a motor vehicle hits a cyclist, who is likely to receive the more serious injury? Who is facing the greatest danger from the inconsideration of others? [/QUOTE] Since we’ve had several cases of bicycle vs pedestrian result in a pedestrian death or severe brain injury I don’t think this argument is going to fly. In a city like NY it’s even worse. The point is that riding a bike defensively on the streets isn’t that bad. You’re acting as a vehicle and people expect you to act that way. Yes, there is a danger of being hit by a car but since you have to cross streets and driveways on the sidewalk you haven’t eliminated the risk. Since cars don’t expect bikes to cross in the crosswalks your risk is much greater. I ride and walk in the city; there’s nothing more dangerous to me as a cyclist or a pedestrian then a biker on the sidewalk. In addition, you’re adding risk to pedestrians who aren’t looking for bikes traveling 3x-4x their speed. Kids run around on the sidewalk, people are walking dogs, pushing prams, etc. It’s not a place that can easily incorporate straightline travel at 12-15 MPH ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/45 "2008-07-04T15:03:59Z")
Bottom line: we here in the USA are not accustomed to sharing the road with anything but motorized vehicles. Even mopeds and scooters were statistically insignificant for decades. In Europe, UK and Asia, it’s different. (dunno ‘bout Canuckland). Given that, I think we are in for a period of adjustment re this issue, at least in suburbia where the riders were traditionally kids (and the young ones were encouraged to use the sidewalk, at least around here). There is confusion as to where a bike is safest (I’m not disputing the facts, I’m saying that the facts haven’t become common knowledge yet), how to ride in traffic, the responsibilities of the driver v the rider (for me, I treat every rider as a madman, much like I do kids–I can’t predict what that biker is going to do next, because bikers’ behavior is too varied for me to do so–anyway, I give them wide berth). I wouldn’t be surprised to see park districts and communities coming up with classes for bike riding/commuting etc. This is not to say that the burden lies solely with the bike riders, but it’s a start. I ride on the street when I ride my bike. I try to take back streets, because I can’t trust cars. I use my bike for simple around town errands. I’m not into the whole biker meme, so I’m probably one of the ones people shake their fists at. I try to follow the rules of the road, but there is always that temptation (because of the maneuverability) to push the boundaries–motorcyclists do it all the time (which doesn’t make it right, I’m just saying). Until we get used to seeing and dealing with more bikes on the road, I think we’ll be having more threads like this one… ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/46 "2008-07-04T20:47:42Z")
[QUOTE=jacquilynne] I do have some sympathy for the plight of the ordinary cyclist. Not the ones I have to pass five times on the same street because they keep riding up beside all the cars that just passed them at every red light, though. But all the other cyclists, I do feel for. [/QUOTE] Er…where exactly is a bicyclist supposed to stop at a red-light if not up at the intersection? Assuming there’s a reasonably safe amount of space between the curb and the line of cars, there’s no reason for a cyclist not to move up. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/47 "2008-07-04T21:12:06Z")
**jacquilynne** I’m with you on the OP, but when I hear string piano wire, or thumbtacks, I get the Rodney Dangerfield complex. For starting a multipage train wreck bicycle riding almost rates up there with pitting people for being fat, or declawing cats. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/48 "2008-07-04T21:19:45Z")
An anecdote: It’s illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk in Germany. Additionally, the cops have zero sense of humor about, well, everything. I was walking in downtown Frankfurt when a cyclist started across a square, which technically was probably okay. Two cops were walking away from him, and he rang his bell to alert them that he was coming. They turned and snatched his ass of the bike and had him up against the wall in about two seconds while writing him a ticket. There’s no point to this story; I just thought it was amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/49 "2008-07-05T16:59:22Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] An anecdote: It’s illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk in Germany. Additionally, the cops have zero sense of humor about, well, everything. I was walking in downtown Frankfurt when a cyclist started across a square, which technically was probably okay. Two cops were walking away from him, and he rang his bell to alert them that he was coming. They turned and snatched his ass of the bike and had him up against the wall in about two seconds while writing him a ticket. There’s no point to this story; I just thought it was amusing. [/QUOTE] The schadenfreude I would have enjoyed from witnessing that would have been IMMENSE!!!1!!! Almost as good as seeing some jerk who just flew by me at 30 over the speed limit getting pulled over. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/50 "2008-07-05T18:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] Roddy: Of course, I only ride on pavements, to keep the likes of you, and doddering old dears, on their toes, and not because I’ve had so many close calls on the roads, I avoid them as much as possible; so I guess I must be a self-absorbed idiot, or something. . [/QUOTE] I don’t care if you had so many close calls on the road. I don’t want to risk a close call with you on the pavement, where you do not belong. I too think riding a bike in a major city’s street is dangerous. As a result, I walk. If you’re bothered by the risk involved in riding your bike on the road, then stop riding your bike. and walk too. And yes, you’re a self absorbed idiot, since you want the best of both worlds and as a result expect _others_ (pedestrians) to be more alert for your convenience. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/51 "2008-07-05T19:06:50Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] Does anyone want to consider this point again; if a cyclist hits a pedestrian, and a motor vehicle hits a cyclist, who is likely to receive the more serious injury? Who is facing the greatest danger from the inconsideration of others? [/QUOTE] That’s precisely the reason why you’re self-absorbed. In order to decrease the risk for you you’re willing to increase the risk for others (pedestrians). Doesn’t matter if the risk you’re avoiding is higher than the risk I’ve now to face. I don’t want you to put me at risk _at all_ for you convenience. I don’t want to have to be _more alert_ when I take a stroll. Once again, there’s an easy way to avoid the danger : become a pedestrian. By the way, I don’t ride a bike nor do I ride a car. And despite my threshold of tolerance for drivers being very low, it seems to me that cyclists are even more inconsiderate and reckless, generally speaking. Not specifically when they ride on the pavement, but also when I observe their behaviour on the street. A large part of them seem indeed to assume that no rule at all apply to them. Were I a driver, I suspect I would be very wary of bicycles. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/52 "2008-07-05T21:03:05Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] That’s precisely the reason why you’re self-absorbed. . [/QUOTE] I may appear ‘self-absorbed’ as I pedal along the pavements, but I’d wager I was far more aware of my surroundings than the average pedestrian. Listen, it’s not like I am talking of cycling along the sidewalks of New York at rush-hour here! The amount of times I have been cycling along and someone walking \*towards - me has been so engrossed in a mobile-phone call they’ve almost walked directly into me on a 10 ft wide pathway, is laughable. It’s no wonder so many people get mugged or walk into avoidable trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Rael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rael)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/53 "2008-07-06T20:42:22Z")
IMO, if the road has a double yellow line you should not be riding a bike. I see people on bikes all the time on roads where the speed limit is 40mph+, (which means people are typically driving 10-15 over that), and drivers are having to swerve around them. This is dangerous to the bicyclist and the other drivers. Let’s face it, for the most part a bike is a toy. Sure some people are using it for transportation, but the vast majority are recreational. You can do that riding around in your subdivision. “But…but… they have the same rights as you drivers do!” Allow me to retort. The roads are mainly paid for by GASOLINE taxes. Also sometimes with the various car registration/taxes. So someone who DOES ride a bike for transportation is not paying these and therefor IMO does not have the same rights as the drivers who do, and furthermore, we don’t spend billions of dollars paving roads for people to ride bikes. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/54 "2008-07-06T20:56:57Z")
> [@](#): > > “But…but… they have the same rights as you drivers do!” > > Allow me to retort. The roads are mainly paid for by GASOLINE taxes. Also sometimes with the various car registration/taxes. So someone who DOES ride a bike for transportation is not paying these and therefor IMO does not have the same rights as the drivers who do, and furthermore, we don’t spend billions of dollars paving roads for people to ride bikes. You don’t know what rights are, do you? ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/55 "2008-07-06T21:23:08Z")
Consider me educated. I bought a bike about three months ago for exercise reasons and have been riding it a little every week - usually to church and back. There are a couple of very busy, slightly scary spots on the route that I’ve started to take to the sidewalks for, especially when the road crosses over the highway. The lanes get very tight, and the traffic is much denser just there. I was also riding across the pedestrian crossing instead of walking my bike, but I made that decision more because of the time limitations and safety than anything else. So far, in three months, I’ve only encountered three pedestrians, and we got along just fine. Most of the drivers have been perfectly nice as well. I’ve only been honked at twice, and it could have been for a perfectly good reason. I just couldn’t figure out what. Probably the one thing I do that makes me feel safest, though, is that whenever I’m at an intersection or other tricky spot, I make eye contact with the driver whose path I will cross. Let’s face it, right or wrong, if I get in a fight with a car, I’m gonna lose. So, I can’t promise I’ll never take to the sidewalk, but I will start walking my bike across intersections if I do. Also, I’ll continue to be nice to the pedestrians and the drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/56 "2008-07-06T21:48:35Z")
[QUOTE=Rael] IMO, if the road has a double yellow line you should not be riding a bike. I see people on bikes all the time on roads where the speed limit is 40mph+, (which means people are typically driving 10-15 over that), and drivers are having to swerve around them. This is dangerous to the bicyclist and the other drivers. Let’s face it, for the most part a bike is a toy. Sure some people are using it for transportation, but the vast majority are recreational. You can do that riding around in your subdivision. “But…but… they have the same rights as you drivers do!” Allow me to retort. The roads are mainly paid for by GASOLINE taxes. Also sometimes with the various car registration/taxes. So someone who DOES ride a bike for transportation is not paying these and therefor IMO does not have the same rights as the drivers who do, and furthermore, we don’t spend billions of dollars paving roads for people to ride bikes. [/QUOTE] ::: sigh::: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rael)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/57 "2008-07-06T22:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] ::: sigh::: :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Is that the best counter argument you can make? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/58 "2008-07-06T22:28:37Z")
[QUOTE=Rael] Is that the best counter argument you can make? 😃 [/QUOTE] It’s probably because your post was like a blind cyclist…all over the fucking place. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/59 "2008-07-06T22:33:31Z")
Actually I made the counter argument in post #36, but since you couldn’t be bothered to read the thread, allow me to repeat the relevant part for you > [@Rick in post #36](#): > > I swear that riding a bicycle is the Koboyashi Maru of the transportation. > If I ride in the street (where the law says I belong) drivers who don’t know the law honk at me and flip me off. (Happend to me me last Sunday) Or worse they try to run me off the road, or throw shit at me for sport. > If I ride on the sidewalk, I break the law, and pedestrians yell at me (with good reason I might add) I ride in the street where the law says I belong. With the exception of limited access freeways, this is where the law says I should ride. There is nothing in the California vehicle code that says I may not or should not ride on a street with a double yellow line. Or 2 double yellow lines for that matter. One of my most common rides is on a street with a 40 MPH speed limit, double double yellow lines, and a bike lane. OK, Einstein, where should I ride? I repeat :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010/60 "2008-07-07T15:58:54Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] Er…where exactly is a bicyclist supposed to stop at a red-light if not up at the intersection? Assuming there’s a reasonably safe amount of space between the curb and the line of cars, there’s no reason for a cyclist not to move up. [/QUOTE] Behind whichever car they are behind when traffic comes to a stop, in front of whichever care is behind them when traffic comes to a stop. I try to be very careful in passing cyclists, respectfully following them until I can safely leave them their entire lane or the large majority of it, instead of crowding them as I go by. But to do that repeatedly, because they pass me again at the next red light is frustrating and annoying. And most people aren’t me, and they pass cyclists in a far more dangerous manner. So riding up beside the line of cars and forcing them all to pass you again and again just increases the chances that you’ll eventually get sideswiped. Not to mention the fact that you just rode up on the right means you’re now in my way if I try to turn right on the red, or even, since cyclists are slow getting started, if I try to turn right once the light turns green, and I can’t take what should have been my right of way to turn right in the first place, but magically isn’t, because the cyclist decided to jump the line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-deeply-misguided-bicycle-riding-bitch/455010.md?page=4)