# Dear El Presidente Obama, a minor point of etiquette **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586 "2009-11-14T20:19:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/1 "2009-11-14T20:19:07Z")
Tihs has possibly not occured to you, or perhaps your protocol people are not doing their jobs. I dunno. I don’t care. Heck, maybe HIllary is just screwing with you. Whatever. You are the fucking President. You do not bow to Royalty. Ok, so I had misgivings about the whole Abdullah thing. Fine. It happened once, no biggie, it was embarassing but not fatal. Then MIchelle had that whole “touchy-feely with Queen Elizabeth” moment, but fine, she’s not you. But I expect you would have _learned_, dammit. > **[Opinion: How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow ...](https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/top-of-the-ticket/story/2009-11-14/opinion-how-low-will-he-go-obama-gives-japans-emperor-akihito-a-wow-bow-updates-with-videos-pic)** > > This article was originally on a blog post platform and may be missing photos, graphics or links. Argh! And yes, I’m sure that Andrew Malcom is right (he’s the L.A. Times writer on this story), and a few of the older generation will appreciate it. It doesn’t matter. This is disrespectful to your _own country_, which does not bow before any foreign nation, just as you’re not supposed to fucking bow before their heads of state. I don’t care if Akihito does has the giant word Emperor before his goddamn nameplate on his desk, you’re the goddamn President of the United States: you are equal in international diplomacy, and even if you weren’t, you shouldn’t be bowing before a figurehead. Even if you somehow can’t grasp it, this is decidedly weak sauce and encourages a lot of other governments to pressure you in ways they wouldn’t otherwise dare. Politeness is one thing; snivelling is quite another. One GIANT :rolleyes: over this whole stupid public embarassment, even if msot people can’t grasp how obnoxious this behavior is. ---
**Author:** ![Hypatia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ab992/32.png) [@Hypatia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypatia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/2 "2009-11-14T20:26:29Z")
Bowing in Japan is used as a greeting, like a handshake. I’m fairly sure I’ve seen world leaders shake hands and I would interpret bowing upon meeting a Japanese leader as simply observing the local greeting etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/3 "2009-11-14T20:28:12Z")
Did Akihito bow back? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/4 "2009-11-14T20:28:33Z")
Do you have cites of other presidents bowing instead of merely shaking hands? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/5 "2009-11-14T20:33:42Z")
Shows what you know! Clearly, this is merely the prelude to further humiliations and abject surrender of American sovereignty. As everybody knows, the correct way to address the Japanese Prime Minister is to await the opportunity to blow chunks all over him, preferably at a formal state dinner. The Japanese are great admirers of correct diplomatic protocol, they even added a new verb to their language in our honor: _busharu_, to hurl, upchuck, perform the Australian yawn… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/6 "2009-11-14T20:53:21Z")
[Reagan bows at nazi SS graves in Bitburg](http://books.google.com/books?id=U2USdAHgdW8C&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=reagan+japan+bows+-obama+-Archery&source=bl&ots=-YrnCA7aQn&sig=0Yn19bIMWrFlv7oen4mKSKcAH4Y&hl=en&ei=9Bf_Sv7rK867lAeJ972FCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAoQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=&f=false) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/7 "2009-11-14T20:55:27Z")
The proper protocol is of course back rubs and/or noogies, followed by “In your face, [country]! USA! USA!” ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/8 "2009-11-14T20:56:09Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > This is disrespectful to your _own country_, which does not bow before any foreign nation, just as you’re not supposed to fucking bow before their heads of state. Well, to be fair, Alabama has really bad knees these days, so it’s hard for the whole country to get a good waist-deep bow going on, not to mention the ensuing massive seismic disruption, which would piss off pretty much everybody outside California. (They’re used to it.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/9 "2009-11-14T20:56:51Z")
> [@](#): > > The proper protocol is of course back rubs… Shit, just be glad he didn’t cop a feel! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/10 "2009-11-14T21:01:38Z")
I thought the proper response was to barf on them. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/11 "2009-11-14T21:05:03Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > This is disrespectful to your _own country_, which does not bow before any foreign nation, just as you’re not supposed to fucking bow before their heads of state. Oh puhleeze. The only people who give a shit are people who want to knock Obama at every turn. Get some preparation H for that sore ass of yours. > [@](#): > > One GIANT :rolleyes: over this whole stupid public embarassment, even if msot people can’t grasp how obnoxious this behavior is. You sound butthurt. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/12 "2009-11-14T21:06:44Z")
Heh… which means, if I remember my Japanese correctly, the past tense is _bushita_. And, frankly, the attitude “this country bows to no other” is about as jingoistic as wearing a “these colors don’t run” T-shirt. I’m no Obama fan, but this rant needs a serious dose of perspective. The sitting President may be going a little overboard on the displays of courtesy and respect, but I’d much rather that than thinking a down parka is acceptable dress for a Holocaust memorial ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/13 "2009-11-14T21:18:08Z")
Wow. I googled “Obama bow” and all the links are to right wing websites bitching and moaning about this. How embarrasing for them. Bowing is the standard greeting in Japan, not a sign of subservience. P.S. We do not lower our flag to foreign leaders like other countries do at the Olympics. There is no rule that the President shouldn’t bow. That is completely made up. All Presidents bow when it is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/14 "2009-11-14T21:27:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I thought the proper response was to barf on them. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t know what’s better: what was said or that is was said by you. I only wish I had thought of it first! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/15 "2009-11-14T21:31:15Z")
So does he. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/16 "2009-11-14T21:33:40Z")
A giant :rolleyes: to anyone who thinks this is news. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/17 "2009-11-14T21:36:37Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > And, frankly, the attitude “this country bows to no other” is about as jingoistic as wearing a “these colors don’t run” T-shirt. I’m no Obama fan, but this rant needs a serious dose of perspective. The sitting President may be going a little overboard on the displays of courtesy and respect, but I’d much rather that than thinking a down parka is acceptable dress for a Holocaust memorial ceremony. What’s wrong with a down parka? ---
**Author:** ![Cort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/77aa72/32.png) [@Cort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cort)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/18 "2009-11-14T21:41:09Z")
It’s gay ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/19 "2009-11-14T21:42:58Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > What’s wrong with a down parka? Everything, [when it has Dick Cheney in it.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43247-2005Jan27.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/20 "2009-11-14T21:44:28Z")
If I was at an outdoor Holocaust memorial ceremony in winter, I’d be wearing a down parka if I had one and it was cold enough. I don’t know the specific incident being referenced, but a down parka doesn’t strike me as inherently insensitive in any context. ETA: having read the article, it’s the STAFF 2001 ski cap that’s stupid, not the parka. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=2)