# Dear El Presidente Obama, a minor point of etiquette **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586 "2009-11-14T20:19:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/181 "2009-11-26T12:51:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …This is so obvious that I can’t help but think that Obama and Holder just want to put on a phony show of being fair and then turn these schmucks loose to attack us again. By golly, I think this is it! I think this is, hands down, the dumbest thing you’ve ever said! ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/182 "2009-11-26T14:12:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This is so obvious that I can’t help but think that Obama and Holder just want to put on a phony show of being fair and then turn these schmucks loose to attack us again. Again? Oh, right. If you’re suspected of something, you’re obviously guilty of it, otherwise why would you be a suspect? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/183 "2009-11-26T15:35:25Z")
And Obama and Holder obviously just lurrves them terr’ists. Why, they’re probably terr’ists themselves! \ ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/184 "2009-11-26T15:49:00Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Again? Oh, right. If you’re suspected of something, you’re obviously guilty of it, otherwise why would you be a suspect? I suspect Starving Dipshit rapes goats. Therefore, it’s obviously guilty. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/185 "2009-11-26T18:03:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > By golly, I think this is it! I think this is, hands down, the dumbest thing you’ve ever said! Yeah, I should probably have phrased that differently. The way it is it looks like I meant that Obama/Holder want enemy combatants to attack our troops again when in reality I think they just don’t care. They want to put on a phony show of trying to be ‘fair,’ knowing full well that U.S. courtroom standards and practices would be impossible to achieve and may very well result in the prisoners’ being freed or sent somewhere else where they’ll be free, and they simply don’t care whether as a result these people are free to attack us or our soldiers again. In other words, they’re more concerned with putting on a show than they are in the consequences of it. Clearer now? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/186 "2009-11-26T18:23:23Z")
Sorry - still asinine. \ You know, **Starving Artist** is one of the reasons that we don’t have more well spoken conservative posters anymore. He has effectively run them off, because they got terminally embarrassed to be represented by such a shallow-thinking stereotyped moron. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/187 "2009-11-26T18:37:03Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sorry - still asinine. \ > > You know, **Starving Artist** is one of the reasons that we don’t have more well spoken conservative posters anymore. He has effectively run them off, because they got terminally embarrassed to be represented by such a shallow-thinking stereotyped moron. But won’t someone think of the goats? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/188 "2009-11-26T18:42:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I can imagine the mocking laughter of our enemies and the rest of the world as once again we idealistically and stupidly go about cutting off our nose to spite our face in some lame, unrealistic, foolish, and ultimately self-defeating attempt to convince ourselves we’re better than everyone else. Wow, spoken like a true America-hater. I appreciate your candor—however inadvertent it might have been—in admitting that you see no difference between us and the terrorists. Now if you could just get your flag-wrapped brethren to concede the same… we’ll still be fucked, but at least it’ll mitigate some of the hypocrisy of this endless war endeavor. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/189 "2009-11-26T18:43:53Z")
It hasn’t escaped my notice that none of you have quibbled with my assessment of the problems involved in attempting to try these people in American courts, falling back instead upon the schoolyard tactics of taunts and name-calling as a defense for your otherwise indefensible views. Typical. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/190 "2009-11-26T18:54:21Z")
That’s because you are not worth engaging with intelligent discourse. You have shown yourself to be incapable of discussing anything. Therefore, you are only worth mocking. Mock. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/191 "2009-11-26T19:28:05Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That’s because you are not worth engaging with intelligent discourse. You have shown yourself to be incapable of discussing anything. > > Therefore, you are only worth mocking. > > Mock. Yeah, after you ( **Starving Artist** ) said that only citizens have the privileges and immunities of having a fair trial, I remembered the old “horse to water/pig to read” thing. Please let me know when you finish that chapter of your book on “Why fringed flags mean you don’t pay taxes” that you told me about. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/192 "2009-11-26T19:41:52Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Yeah, after you ( **Starving Artist** ) said that only citizens have the privileges and immunities of having a fair trial… Never said it; ain’t gonna reply to it. Your post reminds me of an old saying too, though. Something about liars and miscreants. But I’m out the door for family fun right now and don’t have time to look it up. Still, if the foo shits… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/193 "2009-11-26T19:47:00Z")
I’ve heard that **Starving Artist** blows goats. I have photos too, but don’t have time to find them at the moment, as I’m just heading out the door. Cheerio! ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/194 "2009-11-26T19:54:46Z")
Didn’t (most of) the 1993 World Trade Center bombers get a fair trial, in New York City even? Or did I imagine that? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/195 "2009-11-26T20:12:06Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Didn’t (most of) the 1993 World Trade Center bombers get a fair trial, in New York City even? Or did I imagine that? I don’t know (yeah, I’m stuck waiting on a late arrival). Did we capture 'em in a foreign country as enemy combatants and bring 'em over here for trial…or were they here already? Things like that make a difference, you know. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/196 "2009-11-26T20:16:22Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Reagan bows at nazi SS graves in Bitburg](http://books.google.com/books?id=U2USdAHgdW8C&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=reagan+japan+bows+-obama+-Archery&source=bl&ots=-YrnCA7aQn&sig=0Yn19bIMWrFlv7oen4mKSKcAH4Y&hl=en&ei=9Bf_Sv7rK867lAeJ972FCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAoQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=&f=false) Yes, bow down to Nazi undead, barf on Prime Ministers, give a back rub to the German Chancellor (Hitler’s successor!) but by no means bow. Sarcasm at the hypocrisy of the OP aside, Americans do not like the bow, which is polite in most cultures, but seen as subservient here due to Hollywood films. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/197 "2009-11-26T21:55:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In other words, they’re more concerned with putting on a show than they are in the consequences of it. Why? If this is being done just for show, who is the audience? Who is it they hope to impress by appearing to do the right thing? What would Obama and Holder hope to accomplish by being seen to hold a civilian trial? ---
**Author:** ![Alienhand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Alienhand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alienhand)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/198 "2009-11-27T01:04:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t know (yeah, I’m stuck waiting on a late arrival). Did we capture 'em in a foreign country as enemy combatants and bring 'em over here for trial…or were they here already? > > Things like that make a difference, you know. Ramzi Yousef was captured in Islamabad with Pakistani cooperation. It was one of John O’Neill’s first acts after being appointed chief of counterterrorism at the FBI in 1995. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/199 "2009-11-27T01:22:33Z")
I don’t think **Starving Artist** understands that the whole “unlawful combatant” thing was invented from whole cloth by the Bush administration as a sop to the redneck isolationist bloc. We’ve never tried prisoners of war for fighting against us. War criminals get tried in the ICJ. Terrorists have always been a criminal issue as opposed to a military one. And hey, we’ve never had too much trouble prosecuting drug dealers and other international criminals. But I guess when you just want to punish people for having the temerity to align themselves against our interests, it’s best to find some sort of solution that bypasses that whole pesky “evidence” business. Sort of like that whole pesky “knowing the facts” business that **Starving Artist** has also managed to avoid. It’s also hard to imagine that anyone could have ideals that include things like due process or not torturing people. We didn’t found this country so that people could be free from tyranny and being arbitrarily imprisoned, or so that immigrants could come here and make a better life for themselves, or so that we could choose what religion we followed. Anyone who makes policies reflecting that sort of chicanery is just an apologist looking to cuddle up to the Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/200 "2009-11-27T01:26:54Z")
> [@Alienhand](#): > > Ramzi Yousef was captured in Islamabad with Pakistani cooperation. It was one of John O’Neill’s first acts after being appointed chief of counterterrorism at the FBI in 1995. He was convicted in New York Nov 1997 by a federal jury, and sentenced Jan 1998 to life + 240 years by a US district Judge. And nobody apparently had a problem with justice being served, or the defendant given rights and due process before his lawful conviction in a public court. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=11)